What people think of Two Towers (*SPOILERS*)

[jerseydevil]

Well I just got back from the 12:01 showing. Didn't see anyone post a thread on this yet.

I thought it was far better than Fellowship of the Ring. I really did like Mordor. I thought the whole thing was really exciting. Gullum was great. I think I just don't like FotR because it's my favorite out of all the books.

The only things I didn't like were Faramir - i think he is a lot nicer in the book. I also didn't like the slow motion of Shadowfax when you first see him. It's too cliche and reminded me of the old Budweiser commercials with the slow motion of the clidesdales.

[Churl]

I must have beaten you by a minute or two, jersey...

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Churl
I must have beaten you by a minute or two, jersey...

I think we cross posted.

[Churl]

OK, since you have the more descriptive subject line, jersey, I'll move my initial post here.

________

I'm honored to be the one who starts this off. [EDIT: Well, OK, maybe jerseydevil did … grrrrr … let's call it a photo finish. ]

I just got back from a midnight showing of The Two Towers. I won't reveal any spoilers in this post. I'll just give my quick, vague, awed reactions.

First: As implied above, I was absolutely floored by the film. The dumbstruck superlatives you're reading in professional reviews aren't hype or hyperbole.

Second: Like much of the rest of the film, Gollum amazed me.

Third: Jackson's Towers is not Tolkien's book. More precisely, it is much less like Tolkien's Two Towers than Jackson's Fellowship was like Tolkien's.

Finally (for now): To me, the film's departures from the book do not diminish the power and spectacle of either. If you hate the thought of the movies being made at all, then you won't like it. I'm more tolerant of interpretation, however, because no interpretation will diminish the wonder of Tolkien's original words. Certain changes I disagreed with strongly, of course; some will bother many. But if anyone is questioning whether or not the film justifies the anticipation, don't worry. You'll be amazed.

I look forward to the coming discussions...

[hama1]

I am following churl's lead and copying my post here as well.

Well, I had a different reaction. My feeling at the end of FotR was "My God! Has it been three hours?" My feeling at the end of what seemed like three hours of TTT, but was only actually one was "My God! Is this thing ever going to end?" Now it is clear from other areas on this site, that I am no purist and have no problem with interpreting or adapting Tolkien's work. However, if New Line and PJ went to the trouble and expense of buying the rights to the character and place names from TTT, they might as well have gone all the way and purchased the rights to the actual story.

Yes Gollum was pretty amazing and generated the most reaction (generally laughter) from the audience I saw the film with. The battle scene at Helm's Deep was also impressive but I felt contrived and left me distant. I certainly felt no sense of triumph or elation at the eventual victory. Actually, given the characterization of Theoden, I found myself hoping Jackson would make another of his 'minor' changes and the Orcs would win.

I also found the dialogue he chose to leave out or not to stress puzzling. It seemed that great opportunities for drama and character development were missed. I am definitely going to have to re-read TTT and see if I can make sense of the choices Jackson made. I am not saying they were wrong but perhaps he is too clever for me.

Perhaps it is just that the initial thrill from FotR of seeing these charcters and places come to life is gone. However, in the end my feeling is if this is what I have to look forward to for RotK...I'll wait for it to come out on video.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Churl
OK, since you have the more descriptive subject line, jersey, I'll move my initial post here.

Oh thank you.

hama1 -
I actually had a different experience to the film. Although I didn't particularly like some of the changes, the time flew by for me. I enjoyed this one far better than FotR - I think one of the reason is that Merry and Pippin had so little dialog in this one. And like I said - FotR was my favorite of the books. Two Towers was my least favorite - although I always loved Mordor and Frodo and Sam's trip there.

I think I'll end up being a lot less judgemental on TT.

I especially loved the scene where Gullum was arguing with himself.

[Churl]

hama1,

I agree with some of your points, but not with your feeling of boredom during the film. Nonetheless, I respect your opinion — as well as that of anyone who can justify their reasons for liking or disliking the film.

Again attempting to stay spoiler-free, there are many tweaks (and outright changes) made to the nature of certain key characters. Many of these I thought were unnecessary; in Tolkien's vision, those same characters were stronger and more noble.

To echo someone else's sentiment (I'm sorry, I can't remember whose), trimming certain events for pacing reasons or adding a minor skirmish might be regretable but acceptable. Fundamentally altering the motivations and growth of major characters is more troubling.

One spoiler for now, in response to hama1's post:

Yes, some people laughed at Gollum's inner debate in my theater, too. After all, some of it (I believe) was played for deliberate laughs. However, the audience I was a part of stopped laughing quickly when Gollum's words got darker and more murderous.

That said, I still left the theater amazed and thrilled.

By the way, can we assume that a big fat *** SPOILERS!!! *** warning is implied when thread titles mention The Two Towers?

[Miranda]

I'm desperate to read that spoiler but I don't want to ruin the film- its so frustrating. Think I'll remove myself from this forum until I get home after the film tonight! Mx

[Churl]

Well, Miranda (if you're still reading despite your better judgment ), it's not really a huge spoiler … it mainly deals with the tone of Gollum's debate with himself as it is portrayed in the film. Since the movie scene was inspired by similar (but not identical) scenes in the book, you're probably safe to read it.

By the way, despite my strong disagreement with certain choices, I do believe that the film illustrated many of Tolkien’s themes admirably.

Again, these are just my personal reactions; everyone needs to form (and post!) their own opinions.

P.S. Should I get an hour's worth of sleep before work, or should I just soldier through by drinking coffee stronger than orc-draught?

[WallRocker]

Okay, you ready for my opinon on TTT? I believe that Peter Jackson has, yet again, taken the book, changed parts around(I got lost about where the movie was about a dozen times) and still made you like it in the end.

however,

if PJ doesn't have Aragorn marry Arwen, something bad's going to happen

All in all, a good movie. The Ents were done very well.

[Gerbil]

OK just got back from seeing the first showing of TTT at my local cinema.
I'll get the most annoying part out of the way:

They messed up showing the darned film. About 15 minutes from the end the screen slowly faded to black, sound disappeared, and when the image reappeared it was not aligned vertically - what should have been the top 1/4 of the image was at the bottom. Nice eh? Complained afterwards and got given a free ticket to see anything I wanted by a disinterested cinema employee. Stunning.

OK, I'll try to avoid spoilers, but just in case...

The general gist is:

It was a huge disappointment. Stronger than that, many parts of it were awfully boring and badly done.

The accuracy comment: If you had kittens over how true FotR was to the book, you are likely to spawn a whole zoo from this one. It's true in about as much as it's got some characters, there's a battle, and there's ents. The good points: Ents. Nicely done, although badly merged with backgrounds. These were to me the highlight. Also, the start, detailing Gandalf's trail since dropping from the bridge in Moria was excellent. Too excellent in fact - it got my hopes up that were very soon to be quashed. Oh, and the Oliphaunts were nice too. And Arwen was only there in flashbacks - hurrah! The bad points: Too numerous to mention, and I'll try to steer clear of covering the innaccuracy of it to the book, and criticise it merely on it's films The battle for Helm's Deep was actually quite poor -very little actual excitement. I got more thrills from watching the trailer to be honest. Badly paced and interrupted far too often. Gimli is a buffoon. Who also it seems likes to drop in far too many modern phrases. So much for olde wordle. Elrond is a bit of a twat. Galadriel is too. Their dialog was pointless and drawn out. Gollum - I'm a techy freak I know, but too many times he was clearly in a position that would be impossible given the surroundings. Worse than that, he quite often put bits of himself through himself. Common example is when his hands are on his own body - you'd get bits of his fingers going into his body rather than squashing. Call me picky, but it shows up quite clearly on a huge screen! Also, too often the chromakeying was dodgy. Remember the bit in FotR with Aragorn and Frodo on the big swaying staircase in Moria ('lean forwards!'). Looked rubbish right? More of it in this film. Lastly, and I feel bad saying this: The music. So sub-FotR standard it's not true The innaccuracies: Where to begin? Can't be arsed to mention them all or it'll end up turning into a breakdown of the entire film. Choice bits were the Ents deciding NOT to fight. That got right on my nerves. Elves at Helm's Deep. Warg fight. Orcs at the edge of Fangorn (why didn't they just disappear into the forest rather than get slaughtered?). Helm's Deep (but everyone already knows that). Bored just thinking about it. Faramir and the whole Osgiliath thing. Utter crap. The continuity errors: Legolas on a few occasions wasn't wearing his contact lenses. Can't remember exactly where this happened, but it was near the middle. Keep an eye out for his colour changing eyes A lot of close up shots of Helm's Deep Archers. Obviously they wouldn't be allowed to actually fire arrows on set, so they are pretending without arrows which would be CG'ed in afterwards. Needless to say, lots were missed so there's plenty of archers quite clearly firing bugger all!

To sum up - hugely disappointing, to the point of annoyance.
Some bits show glimpses of genius (I was happy with the Ents themselves - pretty much how I envisage them, and the Balrog stuff was great), but too much average stuff. I'll probably go and see it once more just to see it (hopefully!) the whole way through without the cinema cocking it up, but beyond that? I doubt it... I'd rather go see FotR again.

Speaking of which - I had the pleasure last night of seeing FotR in the cinema. So I have been able to compare these films as God intended - the Big Screen. Trust me - FotR is by FAR the better film. PJ will be lucky if he blags more than a couple of Oscars for this one, and even that will be pushing it.

All in all my responce is:

[Blackboar]

Disapointing or not I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!!!

I wish I could stop myself fom reading the spoilers!!!

I'LL HAVE SEEN IT IN 6 HOURS!!!!!!!!!

[GandalfTheWhite]

i totally agree with gerbil, the film was pretty much crap. i mean first of all we have to deal with PJs changes and then the actual filming and effects are messed up too! why didnt they just wait a few years and not rush the realese and make another quality movie like FoTR. i am throughly dissapointed with peter jackson, i thought he was better than this. RoTK should be interesting, and hopefully they will salvage the story.

[Churl]

Blackboar, with all due respect to Gerbil and GandalfTheWhite, don't let them dampen your enthusiasm.

Go into it with an open mind. Sure, you probably won't agree with certain variations — I didn't — but I'll wager that you'll have a better time than their apparently hellish experiences.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Churl
Blackboar, with all due respect to Gerbil and GandalfTheWhite, don't let them dampen your enthusiasm.

Go into it with an open mind. Sure, you probably won't agree with certain variations — I didn't — but I'll wager that you'll have a better time than their apparently hellish experiences.

I agree. I had serious problems with FotR as everyone knows. I think because my expectations were so far down on Two Towers- it enabled me to enjoy this as just an action film. I didn't go in expecting the story to remain the same or some great character development moments - like I had with Fellowship.

The major change that bothered me was making Faramir into an a$$hole, also the whole Osgiliath scene.

Arwen having such a small role was a BIG plus. Also - did anyone notice WHERE Jackson put the subtitles when she was wearing that slinky nightgown dress (pratically see through) talking to Aragorn?

I also agree that although the Ents themselves were well done - they could have blended in with the background better. I however thought that the "bluescreen" scenes were much better in this one - at least better than that terrible shot of Saruman standing on the step of Orthanc as Gandalf rides up to meet him. That shot in FotR annoys me.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Gerbil

Vindication, at last!

[Gerbil]

I agree. I had serious problems with FotR as everyone knows. I think because my expectations were so far down on Two Towers- it enabled me to enjoy this as just an action film. I didn't go in expecting the story to remain the same or some great character development moments - like I had with Fellowship.

Ironically enough, it was watching FotR the night before in the cinema that has allowed me to conclusively say I think TTT is rubbish. FotR, for all it's faults, is thoroughly enjoyable. Not to say TTT isn't fun, but it's a much much lower standard than FotR, for whatever reason.

See them as I did (IE both at the cinema, both close together) and you will probably agree more. Let's be honest - the big screen adds a whole lot of atmosphere to a film like this.

Because of this, I'm betting a lot of you guys will thoroughly enjoy TTT (and good luck to you!) because your anticipation has been the trailer and FotR on a small screen, which is no comparison.
See FotR at the cinema, then see TTT at the cinema, and you can take that difference out of the equation.

What you are left with is the simple fact that TTT is a worse film than FotR.

I definately can't help feeling that TTT was too ambitious, and the time is not right with the technology to do what they wanted.

Worst of all, I now dread RotK...

[edit] Actually, ignore my comment about 'the time isn't right' - I can put up with iffy effects, but the directing was not as good as it should have been, and that has nothing to do with technology.

[Gerbil]

Originally posted by BeardofPants
Vindication, at last!

You are happy about being right? Wouldn't you rather have been wrong and the music was fantastic?

[bropous]

I see the film in approximately twenty-three hours (I didn't have the cash in time to get tickets to the first showing the first day) and am practically beside myself in anticipation. I don't mind the spoilers, and I'll reserve judgement until I see it tomorrow morning. I'm not quite sure how I'm going to be able to concentrate on audits tonight at work.....

They decided to show TTT on the IMAX screens here in 35mm. I've not yet seen a film in that venue before, or in that format, and since it's only nights they are showing it there, I have to do it some weekend night, but I plan on seeing it there. With the family flying in for Christmas it may be after the New Year.

An aside: A very Merry Christmas to one and all, and a prosperous, peaceful, and enjoyable New Year!

[Churl]

Gerbil wrote:

What you are left with is the simple fact that TTT is a worse film than FotR.

Uh oh, Gerbil … I've been burned on other message boards by using the word "fact" when I should have used "impression" or "opinion" instead.

Here's a statement upon which we both probably agree: Towers contained many more changes which might raise hackles on Tolkien purists than did Fellowship, correct?

It will be up to each viewer to determine to what degree those "creative liberties" hurt their enjoyment of the film. For some people that degree will be "intolerably"; for others, less so; for still others, none at all.

I guess I'd place myself in the "less so" bracket, but don't get me wrong: I liked some elements more than others. Personally I weighed the elements they got right against those they didn't (both subjective assessments). After striking that balance, I lean toward great enjoyment. Despite my nickname, call me an optimist.

P.S. bropous wrote:

An aside: A very Merry Christmas to one and all, and a prosperous, peaceful, and enjoyable New Year!

Thank you very much, bropous … and to you also!