Any views on Michael Moorcock's Corum-books?

Grey_Wolf · 03-17-2002, 04:53 AM

I've read Michael Moorcock's Corum-books a couple of times and think they are quite good.

Xivigg · 03-20-2002, 02:35 AM

i liked them too

in fact i like every book Michael Moorcock write

Elric
Hackwmoon
Corum
Erekose

and the other too (can't remember the name)

Elfhelm · 04-09-2002, 07:54 PM

All the Eternal Champions rock! Especially Jerry Cornelius.

TwirlingString · 04-15-2002, 09:41 PM

What are they about, I've never read them?

Grey_Wolf · 04-16-2002, 04:03 AM

They're about Corum, who's entire family and race on different dimensional levels are being exterminated by the gods through their proxys, the Mabden (Man), and Corum's fight against the gods.

TwirlingString · 04-16-2002, 03:27 PM

That sounds familar, and so does your name. Where does it come from?

Grey_Wolf · 04-19-2002, 01:45 PM

Can be found on General Messages, middle of page 2.

Origin of a name (user name), roughly middle of page 7

Captain Stern · 04-30-2002, 10:09 PM

Ooh, I read the 3 books of Corum about a month ago.

Good 'ol politicaly incorrect books!

I am curious though, it said in 'Phoenix in Obsidian' (The 2nd book in the Erekose saga) that all the Eternal Champions have wielded "The Black Sword" including "Corum Jahelan Irsei" yet there wasn't even a mention of Corum using it in the 3 books of Corum... Well he did sort of use it late in the 3rd book, through Elric and Erekose but I don't think that really counts...

Are there any more books starring Corum? Maybe it's in those books that he uses it?

I've just started reading 'The History of the Runestaff' series and so far I'm currently at the begining of the 2nd book 'The Mad God's Amulet'. So far I haven't enjoyed it as much as the Corum Trilogy, I think that the Corum trilogy had more of the elements that make a book good, it had among other things: Tragedy, Magic and the deeper exploration of characters.

Can anyone reccomend any Michael Moorcock books? (I know there's a lot of them!) I've read the 1st book in 'The Dancers at the End of Time' series, 'Phoenix in Obsidian' and I've read an Elric short story in 'The Singing Citadel'. Erekose seems like a very interesting read, especialy since I caught a glimpse of the tragedy of his existence in 'Phoenix in Obsidian' and 'The Books of Corum', I think I'll read that next if I manage to find the book.

viggosbeard · 05-01-2002, 09:08 AM

I think the Black Sword was more of a symbol / nemesis type of thing ( this is from memory as I havnt read any Moorcock for about 15 years ) as in Elric had the black sword stormbringer drinker of souls , Hawkmoon had the Jewel in his skull and Corum had the eye and hand of the two gods. Enjoyable , quick books that take as long to read as it took him to write - and Corum was my fave !

Captain Stern · 05-06-2002, 01:15 PM

You're wrong about the Black Sword viggosbeard, this is what it says in 'Phoenix in Obsidian':

"I was Elric of Melnibone and I defied the Lords of Chaos with my runesword Stormbringer in my hands and a wild joy in my heart...
I was Dorian Hawkmoon and I fought the Beast Lords of the Dark Empire and my sword was called The Sword of the Dawn...
I was Roland dying at Roncesvalles with the magic blade Durandana slaying half a hundred Saracens...
I was Jeremiah Cornelius and this was no sword now but a needle gun shooting darts as I was chased through a city by a surging, insane mob...
I was Prince Corum in the Scarlet Robe, seeking vengeance at the Court of the Gods...
I was Artos the Celt, riding with my burning blade uplifted against the invaders of my kingdom's shores...
And I was all of these and more than these and sometimes my weapon was a sword, at others it was a spear, at others a gun...
BUt always I bore a weapon that was the Black Sword or a part of that strange blade.
Always a weapon-always the warrior.
I was the Eternal Champion and that was my glory and my doom..."

I've just discovered that there are 3 additional Corum books, they're called: 'The Bull and the Spear,' 'The Oak and the Ram,' and 'The Sword and the Stallion' maybe he gets the Black Sword in one of those books, I do get the feeling though that he's no longer Corum in those books.

Grey_Wolf · 05-06-2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Stern
You're wrong about the Black Sword viggosbeard, this is what it says in 'Phoenix in Obsidian':

"I was Elric of Melnibone and I defied the Lords of Chaos with my runesword Stormbringer in my hands and a wild joy in my heart...
I was Dorian Hawkmoon and I fought the Beast Lords of the Dark Empire and my sword was called The Sword of the Dawn...
I was Roland dying at Roncesvalles with the magic blade Durandana slaying half a hundred Saracens...
I was Jeremiah Cornelius and this was no sword now but a needle gun shooting darts as I was chased through a city by a surging, insane mob...
I was Prince Corum in the Scarlet Robe, seeking vengeance at the Court of the Gods...
I was Artos the Celt, riding with my burning blade uplifted against the invaders of my kingdom's shores...
And I was all of these and more than these and sometimes my weapon was a sword, at others it was a spear, at others a gun...
BUt always I bore a weapon that was the Black Sword or a part of that strange blade.
Always a weapon-always the warrior.
I was the Eternal Champion and that was my glory and my doom..."

I've just discovered that there are 3 additional Corum books, they're called: 'The Bull and the Spear,' 'The Oak and the Ram,' and 'The Sword and the Stallion' maybe he gets the Black Sword in one of those books, I do get the feeling though that he's no longer Corum in those books.

After the death his mabden lover he might have become cynical and has to be drawn into the adventure by the calling of the future mabden, (in the mid-book he sees his "copy" and the cause of his death) but he is still Corum althrough this trilogy until the end where he's killed by a mabden woman.

Captain Stern · 05-06-2002, 02:22 PM

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for spoiling it for me Grey Wolf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not another word on the subject of the 3 latter Corum books please!!!!

viggosbeard · 05-13-2002, 03:42 AM

Captain - you sound right , I stand corrected , not a bad attempt after so long - concerning the next three books - without giving anything away - they are by far the best series - the bull and the spear was actually the first book I ever bought myself , outside an old prison on Anglesea I think - have you delved into the 'Hawkwind ' back catalogue ? Moorcock did stuff with them - Ive seen them several times .

Grey_Wolf · 05-13-2002, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Stern
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for spoiling it for me Grey Wolf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not another word on the subject of the 3 latter Corum books please!!!!

I'm sorry, didn't mean to spoil the story for you. I promise I won't write anything more about the plot.

Captain Stern · 05-13-2002, 02:23 PM

Interesting, I happen to live in Anglesey...Are we talking about the same place? Anglesey, North Wales?

I've never heard of the 'Hawkwind' back catalogue, have they anything to do with Hawkmoon? I'd be glad to hear more about it from you.

No problem Grey_Wolf

bropous · 10-19-2002, 01:18 PM

Prince Corum Jhalen Irsei, Prince of the Vadhaugh, Prince in the Scarlet Robe.

This is one of the best series Moorcock wrote, and it was my first introduction to the Eternal Champion series. I was hooked immediately.

I then went on to read the Elric series, which came to be my favorite Moorcock character.

I then met Dorian Hawkmoon and his tragic quest for the Runestaff.

Then, Erokese and his battles with the Silver Warriors.

Then, I read the second Corum series, and was saddened by the fact he no longer used the Eye of Rhynn and Hand of Kwll but was intrigued by the story line and the Mabden woman's final betrayal and murder of Corum with that ball of lime and bones or whatever.

I have had great enjoyment from reading these series, and am glad I picked up that Swords Trilogy combined paperback way back inLouisiana so long, long ago...

Grey_Wolf · 10-20-2002, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
Prince Corum Jhalen Irsei, Prince of the Vadhaugh, Prince in the Scarlet Robe.

This is one of the best series Moorcock wrote, and it was my first introduction to the Eternal Champion series. I was hooked immediately.

I then went on to read the Elric series, which came to be my favorite Moorcock character.

I then met Dorian Hawkmoon and his tragic quest for the Runestaff.

Then, Erokese and his battles with the Silver Warriors.

Then, I read the second Corum series, and was saddened by the fact he no longer used the Eye of Rhynn and Hand of Kwll but was intrigued by the story line and the Mabden woman's final betrayal and murder of Corum with that ball of lime and bones or whatever.

I have had great enjoyment from reading these series, and am glad I picked up that Swords Trilogy combined paperback way back inLouisiana so long, long ago...

The reason Corum didn't have the Eye of Rhynn and The Hand of Kwell in the second trilogy is that both Gods wanted their lost body parts back and thus left Corum a halfcripple. But I agree with you that he should have been allowed to retain his godlike status.

bropous · 10-20-2002, 09:29 PM

I recall quite clearly Corum giving the Hand and Eye back to the Lost Gods to get their help in overthrowing the Chaos Lords (and, as unforseen consequence, the Lords of Law) on the Fifteen Planes.

My point was simply that I thought the two a quite interesting device for a fantasy hero, and that after the Hand and Eye were "repo-ed," he was not as "cool" a hero as before.

The Second Trilogy of Corum was entertaining, but somehow less fulfilling than the first. I mean, Elric was killed at the end of his series too, but it did not seem as much of a let-down as the Mabden chick killing Corum with tathlum.

Coney · 10-20-2002, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bropous
I mean, Elric was killed at the end of his series too, but it did not seem as much of a let-down as the Mabden chick killing Corum with tathlum.

I agree, Elric being slain by Stormbringer seemed an almost vindication of his evil (kinslaying, betrayer etc) yet Corum's death did little to offer the character escape from his past misdemeanors

03-17-2002, 04:53 AM	#1
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	Any views on Michael Moorcock's Corum-books? I've read Michael Moorcock's Corum-books a couple of times and think they are quite good. Last edited by Grey_Wolf : 03-17-2002 at 04:55 AM.

03-20-2002, 02:35 AM	#2
Xivigg Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Earth Posts: 495	i liked them too in fact i like every book Michael Moorcock write Elric Hackwmoon Corum Erekose and the other too (can't remember the name) __________________ Thinking before acting is alway's a good idea.

04-09-2002, 07:54 PM	#3
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	All the Eternal Champions rock! Especially Jerry Cornelius. __________________ cya

04-15-2002, 09:41 PM	#4
TwirlingString Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My mother would say somewhere between the adult mystery section and the YA sci-fi Posts: 489	What are they about, I've never read them? __________________ "The Astels are an emotional people. They cry at the drop of a handkerchief. Their culture is much like that of Pelosia. They're extremely devot and invincibly backward. It's been demonstrated to them over an over that serfdom is an archaic, inefficent institution, but they maintain it anyway--largely at the connivance of the serfs thmselves. Astellian nobles don't exert themselves in any way, so they have no concept of human endurance. The serfs take advantage of that outrageously. Astellian serfs have been known to collapse from sheer exhauston at the very mention of such unpleasant words as 'reaping' or 'digging'." ----------------------------------------------- “They lost him?!” Lupin asked , amazed. “Voldemort has been after Harry for 15 years, and then he misplaces him?!”

04-16-2002, 03:27 PM	#6
TwirlingString Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My mother would say somewhere between the adult mystery section and the YA sci-fi Posts: 489	That sounds familar, and so does your name. Where does it come from? __________________ "The Astels are an emotional people. They cry at the drop of a handkerchief. Their culture is much like that of Pelosia. They're extremely devot and invincibly backward. It's been demonstrated to them over an over that serfdom is an archaic, inefficent institution, but they maintain it anyway--largely at the connivance of the serfs thmselves. Astellian nobles don't exert themselves in any way, so they have no concept of human endurance. The serfs take advantage of that outrageously. Astellian serfs have been known to collapse from sheer exhauston at the very mention of such unpleasant words as 'reaping' or 'digging'." ----------------------------------------------- “They lost him?!” Lupin asked , amazed. “Voldemort has been after Harry for 15 years, and then he misplaces him?!”

04-16-2002, 04:03 AM	#5
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	They're about Corum, who's entire family and race on different dimensional levels are being exterminated by the gods through their proxys, the Mabden (Man), and Corum's fight against the gods.

04-19-2002, 01:45 PM	#7
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	My name - info on. Can be found on General Messages, middle of page 2. Origin of a name (user name), roughly middle of page 7

04-30-2002, 10:09 PM	#8
Captain Stern Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 319	RE: Any views on Michael Moorcock's Corum-books? Ooh, I read the 3 books of Corum about a month ago. Good 'ol politicaly incorrect books! I am curious though, it said in 'Phoenix in Obsidian' (The 2nd book in the Erekose saga) that all the Eternal Champions have wielded "The Black Sword" including "Corum Jahelan Irsei" yet there wasn't even a mention of Corum using it in the 3 books of Corum... Well he did sort of use it late in the 3rd book, through Elric and Erekose but I don't think that really counts... Are there any more books starring Corum? Maybe it's in those books that he uses it? I've just started reading 'The History of the Runestaff' series and so far I'm currently at the begining of the 2nd book 'The Mad God's Amulet'. So far I haven't enjoyed it as much as the Corum Trilogy, I think that the Corum trilogy had more of the elements that make a book good, it had among other things: Tragedy, Magic and the deeper exploration of characters. Can anyone reccomend any Michael Moorcock books? (I know there's a lot of them!) I've read the 1st book in 'The Dancers at the End of Time' series, 'Phoenix in Obsidian' and I've read an Elric short story in 'The Singing Citadel'. Erekose seems like a very interesting read, especialy since I caught a glimpse of the tragedy of his existence in 'Phoenix in Obsidian' and 'The Books of Corum', I think I'll read that next if I manage to find the book. __________________ Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä.

05-01-2002, 09:08 AM	#9
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	I think the Black Sword was more of a symbol / nemesis type of thing ( this is from memory as I havnt read any Moorcock for about 15 years ) as in Elric had the black sword stormbringer drinker of souls , Hawkmoon had the Jewel in his skull and Corum had the eye and hand of the two gods. Enjoyable , quick books that take as long to read as it took him to write - and Corum was my fave ! __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

05-06-2002, 01:15 PM	#10
Captain Stern Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 319	RE: Any views on Michael Moorcock's Corum-books? You're wrong about the Black Sword viggosbeard, this is what it says in 'Phoenix in Obsidian': "I was Elric of Melnibone and I defied the Lords of Chaos with my runesword Stormbringer in my hands and a wild joy in my heart... I was Dorian Hawkmoon and I fought the Beast Lords of the Dark Empire and my sword was called The Sword of the Dawn... I was Roland dying at Roncesvalles with the magic blade Durandana slaying half a hundred Saracens... I was Jeremiah Cornelius and this was no sword now but a needle gun shooting darts as I was chased through a city by a surging, insane mob... I was Prince Corum in the Scarlet Robe, seeking vengeance at the Court of the Gods... I was Artos the Celt, riding with my burning blade uplifted against the invaders of my kingdom's shores... And I was all of these and more than these and sometimes my weapon was a sword, at others it was a spear, at others a gun... BUt always I bore a weapon that was the Black Sword or a part of that strange blade. Always a weapon-always the warrior. I was the Eternal Champion and that was my glory and my doom..." I've just discovered that there are 3 additional Corum books, they're called: 'The Bull and the Spear,' 'The Oak and the Ram,' and 'The Sword and the Stallion' maybe he gets the Black Sword in one of those books, I do get the feeling though that he's no longer Corum in those books. __________________ Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä. Last edited by Captain Stern : 05-06-2002 at 01:18 PM.

05-06-2002, 02:22 PM	#12
Captain Stern Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 319	RE: Any views on Michael Moorcock's Corum-books? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for spoiling it for me Grey Wolf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not another word on the subject of the 3 latter Corum books please!!!! __________________ Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä.

05-13-2002, 03:42 AM	#13
viggosbeard Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey Posts: 247	Captain - you sound right , I stand corrected , not a bad attempt after so long - concerning the next three books - without giving anything away - they are by far the best series - the bull and the spear was actually the first book I ever bought myself , outside an old prison on Anglesea I think - have you delved into the 'Hawkwind ' back catalogue ? Moorcock did stuff with them - Ive seen them several times . __________________ You cant resist her Shes in your bones Shes in your marrow And your ride home You cant avoid her Shes in the air In between molecules Of Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide Only in dreams

05-13-2002, 02:23 PM	#15
Captain Stern Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 319	RE: Any views on Michael Moorcock's Corum-books? Interesting, I happen to live in Anglesey...Are we talking about the same place? Anglesey, North Wales? I've never heard of the 'Hawkwind' back catalogue, have they anything to do with Hawkmoon? I'd be glad to hear more about it from you. No problem Grey_Wolf __________________ Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä.

10-19-2002, 01:18 PM	#16
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Prince Corum Jhalen Irsei, Prince of the Vadhaugh, Prince in the Scarlet Robe. This is one of the best series Moorcock wrote, and it was my first introduction to the Eternal Champion series. I was hooked immediately. I then went on to read the Elric series, which came to be my favorite Moorcock character. I then met Dorian Hawkmoon and his tragic quest for the Runestaff. Then, Erokese and his battles with the Silver Warriors. Then, I read the second Corum series, and was saddened by the fact he no longer used the Eye of Rhynn and Hand of Kwll but was intrigued by the story line and the Mabden woman's final betrayal and murder of Corum with that ball of lime and bones or whatever. I have had great enjoyment from reading these series, and am glad I picked up that Swords Trilogy combined paperback way back inLouisiana so long, long ago... __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

10-20-2002, 09:29 PM	#18
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I recall quite clearly Corum giving the Hand and Eye back to the Lost Gods to get their help in overthrowing the Chaos Lords (and, as unforseen consequence, the Lords of Law) on the Fifteen Planes. My point was simply that I thought the two a quite interesting device for a fantasy hero, and that after the Hand and Eye were "repo-ed," he was not as "cool" a hero as before. The Second Trilogy of Corum was entertaining, but somehow less fulfilling than the first. I mean, Elric was killed at the end of his series too, but it did not seem as much of a let-down as the Mabden chick killing Corum with tathlum. __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

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