morgoth

Gamigar · 10-11-2003, 03:46 PM

how much worse do you think the domination would be if somehow morgoth got a hold of the ring?

Lefty Scaevola · 10-11-2003, 05:38 PM

Morgoth and the ring did coexist in time on the Earth. His pyshical being was destroyed, his powe dispersed, and his reamining spirit exiled to the void some hundreds of years before Sauron made the ring., and his earliest peotential for return and very long time after the ring was destoyed.

Gamigar · 10-11-2003, 11:10 PM

thats why i said "somehow"

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 10-11-2003, 11:48 PM

Moving to the Middle-earth forum.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 10-11-2003, 11:59 PM

Morgoth was the epitome of evil. He was the devil in Tolkien's works. Ironically, Morgoth already had a ring of his own. He didn't need Sauron's.

Ulmo · 10-12-2003, 01:30 AM

I agree here. A magic ring forged by his student driven by part of that student's life force would be of little use to a teacher of Morgoth's great strength/persuasion.

Wayfarer · 10-13-2003, 05:10 AM

*cough*

Considering that the ring drew its power /from/ the energies that morgoth had invested in middle earth, there's not a lot of good it would have done him, except allow him to regain some of his strength.

Sheeana · 10-13-2003, 05:12 AM

Somme? Some boy-genius you are. ::faptard::

Wayfarer · 10-13-2003, 05:29 AM

It's 5 AM. Cut me some slack.

Kirinki54 · 10-14-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Morgoth was the epitome of evil. He was the devil in Tolkien's works. Ironically, Morgoth already had a ring of his own. He didn't need Sauron's.

He had a ring and the ring had him. Rather ironical that Sauron did not learn a bit...

Gamigar · 10-14-2003, 11:41 PM

ok, new question, what destruction could one do if they had every ring of power on their hands?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 10-15-2003, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gamigar
ok, new question, what destruction could one do if they had every ring of power on their hands?

Well, it isn't like the Rings of Power were made to be evil. Only the One Ring was. All of the Rings of Power were made by the Elves, for the Elves, to ward off the effects of time. Annatar aided Celebrimbor in the making of some of the rings, but when Celebrimbor realized who he was and what he was doing, hid the three rings that were never touched by Annatar. The One Ring ensnared all the others, so the One Ring is where the power lay.

Millane · 10-15-2003, 07:30 AM

yes i must say maybe someone here could clear it up... how come nothing was done to help any of the Dwarven Lords or Kings of Men, on Celebrimbors behalf once he knew he had been decieved by Sauron? or was something done?...

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 10-15-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
yes i must say maybe someone here could clear it up... how come nothing was done to help any of the Dwarven Lords or Kings of Men, on Celebrimbors behalf once he knew he had been decieved by Sauron? or was something done?...

I believe at that point, by the time Celebrimbor realized what Annatar was doing, it was too late. The seven and the nine had already been captured. The best Celebrimbor could do was hide the three. It was then, that the Elves of Eregion went to war in the War of the Elves and Sauron, and Celebrimbor was slain.

Tuor of Gondolin · 10-20-2003, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Sister Goldenhair
"I believe at that point, by the time Celebrimbor realized what Annatar was doing, it was too late. The seven and the nine had already been captured. The best Celebrimbor could do was hide the three. It was then, that the Elves of Eregion went to war in the War of the Elves and Sauron, and Celebrimbor was slain."
________________________________________________

Actually, [if I follow the sequence of events correctly], Celebrimbor was really mainly concerned only for the Three. and the seven and the nine were captured AFTER he broke with Annatar, not before.

Quote:

"Celebrimbor, desperate, himself withstood Sauron on the steps of the great door of the Mirdain; but he was grappled and taken captive, and the House was ransacked. There Sauron took the Nine Rings and other lesser works of the Mirdain; but the Seven and the Three he could not find. Then Celebrimbor was put to torment, and Sauron learned from him where the seven were bestowed. This Celebrimbor revealed, because neither the Seven nor the Nine did he value as he valued the Three; the Seven and the Nine were made with Sauron's aid, whereas the Three were made by Celebrimbor alone, with a different power and purpose."

Unfinished Tales, p. 238,
Houghton Mifflin Co., Boston, 1980.

So he wasn't especially worried about the fate of the Nine and the Seven?

Beor · 10-20-2003, 01:51 PM

the three were the only ones that Sauron didnt have a hand in making, which probably had something to do with the special care given to them. They were unmarred, so to speak

Tuor of Gondolin · 10-20-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Beor:
"the three were the only ones that Sauron didnt have a hand in making, which probably had something to do with the special care given to them. They were unmarred, so to speak"
_________________________________________________

I'm sure that's how he saw it but foreknowledge failed him about the threat the Nazgul would pose in the future (imagine how much less the danger to Frodo from Hobbiton to Rivendell if instead of the Nazgul Sauron had sent, say, Rosenkrantz and Gildenstern (Shagrat and Gorbag) to try to get the ring.

Artanis · 10-20-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Millane
yes i must say maybe someone here could clear it up... how come nothing was done to help any of the Dwarven Lords or Kings of Men, on Celebrimbors behalf once he knew he had been decieved by Sauron? or was something done?...

Well, we know Sauron gathered all the nine Rings, and probably also the seven, after he had put Celebrimbor to death. I don't think anyone knew that the dwarfs and the men was given rings, until it was too late. They may also have underestimated the power of Sauron at that time, and perhaps they failed to understand the true nature of the One Ring.

Edit: Tuor, your UT Edition is certainly not the same as mine.

10-11-2003, 03:46 PM	#1
Gamigar Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: somewhere between here and there Posts: 116	morgoth how much worse do you think the domination would be if somehow morgoth got a hold of the ring? __________________ The road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began Now far ahead the road has gone And I must follow if I can Pursuing it with eager feet Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet And wither then I can not say

10-11-2003, 11:10 PM	#3
Gamigar Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: somewhere between here and there Posts: 116	thats why i said "somehow" __________________ The road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began Now far ahead the road has gone And I must follow if I can Pursuing it with eager feet Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet And wither then I can not say

10-11-2003, 11:48 PM	#4
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Moving to the Middle-earth forum. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

10-11-2003, 11:59 PM	#5
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	Morgoth was the epitome of evil. He was the devil in Tolkien's works. Ironically, Morgoth already had a ring of his own. He didn't need Sauron's. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

10-12-2003, 01:30 AM	#6
Ulmo Enting Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 76	I agree here. A magic ring forged by his student driven by part of that student's life force would be of little use to a teacher of Morgoth's great strength/persuasion. __________________ 'Legolas' on The Barrow-Downs ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

10-11-2003, 05:38 PM	#2
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Morgoth and the ring did coexist in time on the Earth. His pyshical being was destroyed, his powe dispersed, and his reamining spirit exiled to the void some hundreds of years before Sauron made the ring., and his earliest peotential for return and very long time after the ring was destoyed.

10-13-2003, 05:10 AM	#7
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	cough Considering that the ring drew its power /from/ the energies that morgoth had invested in middle earth, there's not a lot of good it would have done him, except allow him to regain some of his strength. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned Last edited by Wayfarer : 10-13-2003 at 05:29 AM.

10-13-2003, 05:12 AM	#8
Sheeana Lord of the Pants Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,382	Somme? Some boy-genius you are. ::faptard::

10-13-2003, 05:29 AM	#9
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	It's 5 AM. Cut me some slack. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

10-14-2003, 11:41 PM	#11
Gamigar Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: somewhere between here and there Posts: 116	ok, new question, what destruction could one do if they had every ring of power on their hands? __________________ The road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began Now far ahead the road has gone And I must follow if I can Pursuing it with eager feet Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet And wither then I can not say

10-15-2003, 07:30 AM	#13
Millane The Dude Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: at the altar of my ego Posts: 1,685	yes i must say maybe someone here could clear it up... how come nothing was done to help any of the Dwarven Lords or Kings of Men, on Celebrimbors behalf once he knew he had been decieved by Sauron? or was something done?... __________________ Ill heal your wounds, ill set you free,

10-20-2003, 01:51 PM	#16
Beor founder of the color blue Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: E-Space Posts: 1,727	the three were the only ones that Sauron didnt have a hand in making, which probably had something to do with the special care given to them. They were unmarred, so to speak __________________ Well, there it is.

10-20-2003, 04:36 PM	#17
Tuor of Gondolin Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 1,215	Originally posted by Beor: "the three were the only ones that Sauron didnt have a hand in making, which probably had something to do with the special care given to them. They were unmarred, so to speak" _________________________________________________ I'm sure that's how he saw it but foreknowledge failed him about the threat the Nazgul would pose in the future (imagine how much less the danger to Frodo from Hobbiton to Rivendell if instead of the Nazgul Sauron had sent, say, Rosenkrantz and Gildenstern (Shagrat and Gorbag) to try to get the ring. __________________ Democrat for Kerry-Edwards! Take Back America Aure entuluva!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Morgoth Alive???????	Turgon_Turambar	The Silmarillion	52	01-12-2004 01:56 PM
Power: Morgoth and Sauron	Finrod Felagund	Middle Earth	22	11-13-2003 08:29 PM
the religion of Sauron vs religion of Morgoth	afro-elf	Middle Earth	7	03-06-2003 07:59 PM
Sauron and the will of Morgoth	Finmandos12	Lord of the Rings Books	12	10-09-2001 04:04 PM
How big is Morgoth	easygreen	The Silmarillion	20	07-19-2001 08:27 PM