Merry's Barrow Dream

[Valandil]

After Tom rescues Frodo & Co from the Barrow Wight, and then commands the sleeping threesome to awake, Merry says;

"What in the name of wonder? Of course, I remember! The Men of Carn Dum came on us at night and we were worsted. Ah! The spear in my heart! No! No! What am I saying? I have been dreaming. Where did you get to, Frodo?"

We find in Appendix A that;

'Some say that the mound in which the Ringbearer was imprisoned had been the grave of the last prince of Cardolan, who fell in the war of 1409.'

The dream that Merry had sounds very much a likely end of someone who died there - either that prince, or one of his men. "Carn Dum" was the chief city of Angmar - the land of the Witch-King, and the land to which the prince of Cardolan would have fallen in 1409.

So - what happened? Was Merry somehow connected with a remnant of that attack? A spirit that had remained? A lingering memory attached to some object? What triggered his dream? Merely hobbit lore about the demise of Cardolan?

Ironic too - that Merry was the one whose blade, recovered from that Barrow, struck the Witch-King whose forces had once assailed the Barrow, slaying him along with Eowyn.

[Gordis]

Have a look at this old thread, Val.

http://www.entmoot.com/showthread.ph...ighlight=Merry

I think some of your questions are answered there.

[Valandil]

Thank you Gordis - I thought we had discussed this in some capacity before, but didn't remember just where. And - I thought I had jumped in, but I don't see myself there.

I'm inclined against a Dunedain spirit though - I don't see how one (or more) could have been trapped there after death. It was over 200 years later before the Wights were even sent to inhabit these barrows (after the Great Plague in 1636).

I'm doing a re-read now, and going over this must have reminded me of the earlier discussion.

[Gordis]

At least, Val, I think we are in agreement that the vision didn't come from the Wight. 1. It was not there (yet) when the Men of Carn Dum attacked the Barrows (1409) and 2. it was not there (already sent away by Tom) when Merry had his vision.

I don't insist on the Dunedain spirit idea. Perhaps it was just a vision - prompted by clothes and rings and things the Wight had put on Merry, or by the Barrows themselves - the whole area. Like later Legolas said that Hollin stones still remembered the Mirdain...

[The Gaffer]

I like your suggestion of an "imprint", like the Hollin stones.

It's a lovely hint of backstory, one of the vast canvasses that Tolkien sketches very vaguely and leaves to our imagination.

The fact that it was Merry, the most "martial" of the hobbits who had the vision, suggests perhaps that he was most open to this sort of imprint. He knew the most about the Old Forest, and perhaps knew a bit more about the history from the Shire's early days.

[Noble Elf Lord]

In the computer game "LotR:Battle for Middle-earth II - Rise of the Witchking" one of the campaign missions ends like this: Morgomir and wights have cornered an Arnor prince (can´t remember the name now) and Morgomir slays the prince with Morgul Blade, turning him into a powerful wraith, Karsh, "the Whisperer". Of course it´s made up by the EA folks, but I like it.

[Gordis]

Who is Morgomir?

[Noble Elf Lord]

One of the Nine and Lieutenant of Carn Dum... In the game at least.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Noble Elf Lord

In the game at least

Tsk tsk, even a movie fan would be ashamed to say this!

[Noble Elf Lord]

Suppose so... But what Nazguls did Tolkien name? What are their names?

[Gordis]

Only two of the nazgul are more or less named.

1. the Witch-King of Angmar (but it is just a title, as well as "the Lord of Morgul", the "Black Captain", "the Lord of the Nazgul")
2. Khamul, the Shadow of the East - the Black Easterling, Lieutenant of Dol Guldur, second in command of the Nazgul (see UT).
As I suppose that the "Shadow of the East" is a direct translation of "Khamul" (Kha- means "East" like in "Khand", and mul=shadow), then it is hardly an original name given at birth, more like a nickname he got while already a nazgul.

3.Also some Tolkien scholars speculate that "Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul" who took command of the Mordor forces after the WK had been slain, was also a nazgul. But we can't know it for certain.

[Star]

You know, thats a very good theory. Maybe Merry was somehow related to either that prince, or one of his men.

[Olmer]

O,yeah. Dunadan hobbit.

[Gordis]

I am afraid someone interprets "the people of Cardolan dwindled" a bit too literally .

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Noble Elf Lord

In the computer game "LotR:Battle for Middle-earth II - Rise of the Witchking" one of the campaign missions ends like this: Morgomir and wights have cornered an Arnor prince (can´t remember the name now) and Morgomir slays the prince with Morgul Blade, turning him into a powerful wraith, Karsh, "the Whisperer". Of course it´s made up by the EA folks, but I like it.

Those games may be fun - but they don't really stick with Tolkien's storylines, I suppose.

The 'last prince of Cardolan' fell in 1409. The wights didn't come to occupy any of the barrows at least until 1636 - after the Great Plague and over 200 years later.

[Noble Elf Lord]

Originally Posted by Valandil

Those games may be fun - but they don't really stick with Tolkien's storylines, I suppose.

The 'last prince of Cardolan' fell in 1409. The wights didn't come to occupy any of the barrows at least until 1636 - after the Great Plague and over 200 years later.

Yeah, they don´t... but the EA has to make up things which Tolkien didn´t fully describe. But I think they managed to make them "enough" Tolkienish, fortunately.