Do elves have souls?

Kalile · 06-12-2003, 12:50 PM

Here's an interesting question. Do elves have souls? It's an interesting debate, one that I have no answer to.

Maybe they're like the mermaids of Hans Christian Anderson; living 700 years, (or, in this case, forever if not killed) but then dissolving into sea foam at the end of those years.

Or maybe they do have souls, but they don't die of natural causes, so don't go to their "heaven" very often.

What do you think?

Melko Belcha · 06-12-2003, 01:56 PM

Yes Elves have souls. After they are slain there spirit (or fea) goes to the Halls of Mandos, then after a time (if allowed) they are reimbodied.

Ruinel · 06-12-2003, 02:40 PM

If you mean a separate part of the Elves that lives on, then yes... that is the fea or spirit, as Melko Belcha has explained.

The time that is spent in Mandos as fea (spirit) without a hroa (body) depends upon how much time that fea needs to heal. If the Elf did bad things while the hroa and fea were together, before death, then the fea must spend a great deal of time in Mandos healing.

After that time, the fea is reborn in Valinor.

The Elves no longer return here among the Atani.

Arien the Maia · 06-12-2003, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
[B
The time that is spent in Mandos as fea (spirit) without a hroa (body) depends upon how much time that fea needs to heal. If the Elf did bad things while the hroa and fea were together, before death, then the fea must spend a great deal of time in Mandos healing.

[/B]

a good example is Feanor....he was never allowed to be re-embodied I believe....tis a shame too!

Bombadillo · 06-12-2003, 04:03 PM

I agree with you three.

And as another, more different argument, elves are good and happy people. I think, generally, if you have no soul you're pretty messed up mentally (and not like the Hobbit elves).

Kalile · 06-12-2003, 04:51 PM

That's something I didn't know, and you're right, Bombadillo, you would probably be messed up without a soul, but here's an argument against all of yours.

Elves are the embodiment of good, for the most part, and they are almost perfect. Such perfection in many stories does not allow room to grow, or to change. In fact, most elves do not change in their thousands of years, while humans, of course change a lot. In my opinion, a soul is all of the essence that makes up a person, including their faults, changes, and growths. A lot of elves lack these things.

Arien the Maia · 06-12-2003, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kalile
That's something I didn't know, and you're right, Bombadillo, you would probably be messed up without a soul, but here's an argument against all of yours.

Elves are the embodiment of good, for the most part, and they are almost perfect. Such perfection in many stories does not allow room to grow, or to change. In fact, most elves do not change in their thousands of years, while humans, of course change a lot. In my opinion, a soul is all of the essence that makes up a person, including their faults, changes, and growths. A lot of elves lack these things.

the souls or fea of Elves and Men are quite different....Elves tend to cling on to the past while men are not naturally bound to this world so they can change with it with ALOT more ease

Elf Girl · 06-12-2003, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kalile
Elves are the embodiment of good, for the most part, and they are almost perfect. Such perfection in many stories does not allow room to grow, or to change. In fact, most elves do not change in their thousands of years, while humans, of course change a lot. In my opinion, a soul is all of the essence that makes up a person, including their faults, changes, and growths. A lot of elves lack these things.

Have you read the Silmarillion? Elves are not the embodiment of good, they are people, like Men. (Only different.) They do change, however because of their extended life spans, they do not change as fast as Men, so perhaps their changes are not as noticable. I also cannot think of an Elf that does not have any faults.

Should I take this thread as an insult? I have soul!

Arien the Maia · 06-12-2003, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
I also cannot think of an Elf that does not have any faults.

I'm sure Ruinel and SGH would agree that Finrod would fit that discription!

Elf Girl · 06-12-2003, 08:37 PM

Finrod was over-proud and possesive of the Silmarils.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-12-2003, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Finrod was over-proud and possesive of the Silmarils.

WHAT! Do you have a quote from the text to back up that statement. Finrod was never possesive of the Silmarils. He was Noldorin, and not perfect, but there is no Noldorin Exile that was more pure of heart than Finrod was. Over-proud and possesive indeed. Hmph!

Kalile · 06-13-2003, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Have you read the Silmarillion?

Actually, I am starting tomorrow. (And I have a soul too.) My mother, actually, has read all of these, and a lot of literature and fantasy, and it was she who told me that elves are not considered to have souls. I like to know people's views on this. Since all of the posts are leaning towards that elves do have souls, I just provide arguments to keep the thread going.

Arien the Maia · 06-13-2003, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elf Girl
Finrod was over-proud and possesive of the Silmarils.

I think you're confusing Feanaro with Finrod...those two aren't even in the same league!

Falagar · 06-13-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
those two aren't even in the same league!

Nope, Finrod is even more evil

C'mon, you all know it

Arien the Maia · 06-13-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
Nope, Finrod is even more evil C'mon, you all know it

LOL!!!!

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-13-2003, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arien the Maia
I think you're confusing Feanaro with Finrod...those two aren't even in the same league!

Thank you for pointing that out to Elf girl.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 06-13-2003, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Falagar
Nope, Finrod is even more evil C'mon, you all know it

Falagar, you better watch it. My stick is at hand buddy.

Arien the Maia · 06-13-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Thank you for pointing that out to Elf girl.

I could say why they weren't even in the same league but I don't want to get bopped!

galadriel · 06-13-2003, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kalile
Maybe they're like the mermaids of Hans Christian Anderson; living 700 years, (or, in this case, forever if not killed) but then dissolving into sea foam at the end of those years.

I'm glad that I'm not the only person in the universe who was reminded of Elves when I reread The Little Mermaid, especially with the whole otherworldly-being-falling-in-love-with-human deal.

Bombadillo · 06-13-2003, 01:44 PM

Good argument Kalile, but i think they do change, even personality-wise. They're just really old people, and old people are ussually old fasioned. They're all old enough to have found a lifestyle they like so they're sticking with it.

Proof:
Look at Elf Girl. She's different. She moots, on a computer. I bet she wasn't born with a computer.
And look at the elf in Anglorfin's signature. I bet he wasn't born with an interest in guitar.

I see what you mean though, about improvment.

06-12-2003, 12:50 PM	#1
Kalile The Potato sack... er elf Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sailing between the stars is a white ship with silken sails... Posts: 1,382	Do elves have souls? Here's an interesting question. Do elves have souls? It's an interesting debate, one that I have no answer to. Maybe they're like the mermaids of Hans Christian Anderson; living 700 years, (or, in this case, forever if not killed) but then dissolving into sea foam at the end of those years. Or maybe they do have souls, but they don't die of natural causes, so don't go to their "heaven" very often. What do you think? __________________ To dream the impossible dream To fight the unbeatable foe To bear with unbearable sorrow To run where the brave dare not go To right the unrightable wrong To love pure and chaste from afar To try when your arms are too weary To reach the unreachable star

06-12-2003, 01:56 PM	#2
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	Yes Elves have souls. After they are slain there spirit (or fea) goes to the Halls of Mandos, then after a time (if allowed) they are reimbodied. __________________ "....rapturous words from which ultimatley sprang the whole of my mythology" - JRR Tolkien Hail Earendel brightest of angels, over middle-earth sent unto men Crist by Cynewulf (lines 104-5)

06-12-2003, 04:03 PM	#5
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	I agree with you three. And as another, more different argument, elves are good and happy people. I think, generally, if you have no soul you're pretty messed up mentally (and not like the Hobbit elves). __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

06-12-2003, 04:51 PM	#6
Kalile The Potato sack... er elf Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sailing between the stars is a white ship with silken sails... Posts: 1,382	That's something I didn't know, and you're right, Bombadillo, you would probably be messed up without a soul, but here's an argument against all of yours. Elves are the embodiment of good, for the most part, and they are almost perfect. Such perfection in many stories does not allow room to grow, or to change. In fact, most elves do not change in their thousands of years, while humans, of course change a lot. In my opinion, a soul is all of the essence that makes up a person, including their faults, changes, and growths. A lot of elves lack these things. __________________ To dream the impossible dream To fight the unbeatable foe To bear with unbearable sorrow To run where the brave dare not go To right the unrightable wrong To love pure and chaste from afar To try when your arms are too weary To reach the unreachable star

06-12-2003, 08:37 PM	#10
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Finrod was over-proud and possesive of the Silmarils. __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

06-12-2003, 02:40 PM	#3
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	If you mean a separate part of the Elves that lives on, then yes... that is the fea or spirit, as Melko Belcha has explained. The time that is spent in Mandos as fea (spirit) without a hroa (body) depends upon how much time that fea needs to heal. If the Elf did bad things while the hroa and fea were together, before death, then the fea must spend a great deal of time in Mandos healing. After that time, the fea is reborn in Valinor. The Elves no longer return here among the Atani.

06-13-2003, 01:44 PM	#20
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	Good argument Kalile, but i think they do change, even personality-wise. They're just really old people, and old people are ussually old fasioned. They're all old enough to have found a lifestyle they like so they're sticking with it. Proof: Look at Elf Girl. She's different. She moots, on a computer. I bet she wasn't born with a computer. And look at the elf in Anglorfin's signature. I bet he wasn't born with an interest in guitar. I see what you mean though, about improvment. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 06-13-2003 at 03:13 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The Silmarillion: Ch.3 Of the coming of the Elves and the captivity of Melkor	Artanis	The Silmarillion Project	82	09-09-2018 05:50 AM
The Return of the elves, The new Rings of power, and The Re-Birth Of Middle-Earth	zavron	RPG Forum	18	01-25-2003 04:51 PM
Elves and Sleep	Nariel	Middle Earth	2	12-25-2002 12:44 AM
Shadows in the East/ discussion	afro-elf	RPG Forum	45	04-15-2002 10:15 PM
Middle-earth, Hollow Earth Fingolfin	shamballa	Middle Earth	4	10-10-2001 03:55 AM