something i was wondering

Lenwë Lossëhelin · 12-13-2005, 06:16 PM

if there's a Middle Earth...do you think there is a North Earth? or South, East, and West? hmm....i was just thinking about that one day while being bored in school. because thats what i do when im bored...i think about lord of the rings!!!

Wayfarer · 12-13-2005, 08:23 PM

Not really.

The term 'middle earth' doesn't actually refer to the geographic 'middle of the earth' - the actual setting is in the north-westernmost corner of the world, so that wouldn't even make sense. 'Middle Earth' is just the term used to apply to the world of mortals in general, similar to Midgard of norse myth.

Findegil · 12-13-2005, 08:31 PM

Soory, but I must disagree. Middle-Earth is not only what we see on the maps in "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Silmarillion". Middle-Earth is the name of that part of Arda that lies between Belegear and the Eastern See. Thus there is Valinor which we could name Western-Earth and the Land of the Sun which could be names Eastern-Earth.

Respectfully
Findegil

***Earniel*** · 12-14-2005, 10:10 AM

Funnily enough I've been wondering about that too once in a while.

Not about a possible East- or West-earth, but more in the direction of: could there also be an Upper-earth or Nether-earth? In the norse myhtology there is.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 12-14-2005, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Findegil

Soory, but I must disagree. Middle-Earth is not only what we see on the maps in "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Silmarillion". Middle-Earth is the name of that part of Arda that lies between Belegear and the Eastern See. Thus there is Valinor which we could name Western-Earth and the Land of the Sun which could be names Eastern-Earth.

Respectfully
Findegil

I agree with this.

Merenwen Vardamir · 12-14-2005, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Funnily enough I've been wondering about that too once in a while.

Not about a possible East- or West-earth, but more in the direction of: could there also be an Upper-earth or Nether-earth? In the norse myhtology there is.

I was wondering that as well... Is there any reason why this all took place in Middle Earth?

Lenwë Lossëhelin · 12-15-2005, 10:27 PM

i dont know...
and if Middle Earth is the realm of men....i wonder what upper earth would be? the realm of the Valar maybe? and nether earth could be the realm of morgoth...i dont know

Merenwen Vardamir · 12-16-2005, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenwë Lossëhelin

i dont know...
and if Middle Earth is the realm of men....i wonder what upper earth would be? the realm of the Valar maybe? and nether earth could be the realm of morgoth...i dont know

Fun thought.... I get to live with the Elves! Or go to sea with Legolas. *Dreamy eyed* lol

Findegil · 12-16-2005, 08:02 PM

It took place in Middle-Earth (mainly, some things are reproted from beyonde the western sea) because that was the original habitation of the Elves and Men.

Respectfully
Findegil

Merenwen Vardamir · 12-18-2005, 05:05 PM

I think this thread... is dieing...... :'( I was wondering... I got nothing.... umm.... I must keep Lenwe's thread alive! *Hysterical* What- What- What- *Cries* Why do Dwarves and Elves hate each other? (I'm trying to help....)

Curubethion · 12-18-2005, 10:29 PM

"Middle-Earth" is Tolkien's counterpart to the Norse "Midgard". Here's a link. From the source:
"Midgard is the realm of the humans in Norse mythology. Pictured as placed somewhere in the middle of Yggdrasil, Midgard is surrounded by a world of water or ocean, which is impassable. The ocean is inhabited by the great sea serpent Jormungand, who is so huge that he encircles the world entirely, grasping his own tail."
In Tolkien's original conception, the Earth (including the Undying Lands, etc.) was a Viking ship floating in the sea of the Void. Above it was the dome of the Stars. I don't have a quote with me right now...

Jon S. · 12-18-2005, 11:09 PM

There is a sort of "middle earth" concept in Hebrew (Judeo-Christian) mythology (term used here in the sociological sense), as well:

God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, that it may separate water from water. God made the expanse and it separated the water which was below the expanse from the water which was above the expanse."

The "water which was above the expanse" suggests a vault or dome over the earth, which people couldn't reach, beyond which the Divine dwelt (somewhat analogous to Valinor, I suppose). It was still water, though - e.g., when Noah's flood came, "And the flood-gates of the sky broke open," i.e., the dome breached and the water above came tumbling down through the sky as heavy rain.

The expanse itself was the sky.

The area below the expanse eventually became "middle earth" where men and women live - "Let the water below the sky be gathered into one area, that the dry land may appear."

Since water flows down due to the effects of gravity, this would literally make the world of the Hebraic creation myth a 4-level world: (1) the water above the expanse; (2) the sky; (3) the dry land where people dwell ("middle earth"); and (4) the water below the expanse (the oceans/"deeps").

Merenwen Vardamir · 12-20-2005, 11:42 AM

Somebody keep the thread going!!

Lotesse · 12-20-2005, 01:03 PM

In order to keep a thread open, one must actually carry on a conversation with other interesrted parties within the context of the topic at hand of said thread. One has to answer or comment upon what another has said, you know, a conversation. Additionally, one cannot really consider a thread "dead" until it has received absolutely NO attention for more than a few weeks, not just a day or two. So, therte's no need to panic, silly goose!

Welcome to Entmoot, BTW!

I always figured Middle-Earth was an extra planet within our solar system, like an invisible, very small living planet which is mostly water, with Middle Earth like a gi-normous island, and a couple other continent-like islands there too, that perhaps had not been explored by elves or men yet and maybe have aboriginal-type peoples on it or a race of talking, self-governed animals or something... anyway, it's too early in the morning to be thinking this much.

Merenwen Vardamir · 12-20-2005, 02:57 PM

Tehe... I'm a silly goose..... Hehehehe. Very detailed responce. I might just be prone to over-reacting.... lol. Lenwe... do I over-react?

brownjenkins · 12-20-2005, 03:35 PM

if you read lost tales 1&2 (tolkien's first thoughts on his "world"), his idea was to introduce a new "fairy tale" or mythology into the world of british folklore... one unique to them, much like the norse have the eddas

some of the earliest tales actually involved travel from the british isles themselves... so, in a very rough sense, middle earth is europe in a much earlier time

his ideas changed a lot over time, and i don't think he ever intended a direct comparision... but he did base his ideas around this analogy, as opposed to just completely "making it up"

Lenwë Lossëhelin · 12-21-2005, 10:12 PM

yeah..i have read the book of lost tales 1 ...and i gave it to Merenwen (and yes you do over react by the way lol) i thought it was really good...and im wanting to get the second one. is it good?

durinsbane2244 · 12-21-2005, 10:15 PM

here's a thought, the entire map we see in the LotR is just the western tip of Middle Earth, just how big is it?

Lenwë Lossëhelin · 12-23-2005, 12:25 PM

yeah i've always wondered what was east of Mordor on the map...hmm..

Merenwen Vardamir · 01-23-2006, 11:54 AM

Now can I panic about the thread being dead? I wish I knew what to put to start conversation again..... What do you guys think is going to happen in Harry Potter 7? (Or am I not allowed to ask about HP on a LOTR thread? O.O)

12-13-2005, 06:16 PM	#1
Lenwë Lossëhelin Sapling Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 4	something i was wondering if there's a Middle Earth...do you think there is a North Earth? or South, East, and West? hmm....i was just thinking about that one day while being bored in school. because thats what i do when im bored...i think about lord of the rings!!!

12-13-2005, 08:23 PM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Not really. The term 'middle earth' doesn't actually refer to the geographic 'middle of the earth' - the actual setting is in the north-westernmost corner of the world, so that wouldn't even make sense. 'Middle Earth' is just the term used to apply to the world of mortals in general, similar to Midgard of norse myth. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-14-2005, 10:10 AM	#4
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Funnily enough I've been wondering about that too once in a while. Not about a possible East- or West-earth, but more in the direction of: could there also be an Upper-earth or Nether-earth? In the norse myhtology there is. __________________ We are not things. Last edited by Earniel : 12-14-2005 at 11:40 AM. Reason: bad spelling sigh* when will I learn?*

12-18-2005, 10:29 PM	#11
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	"Middle-Earth" is Tolkien's counterpart to the Norse "Midgard". Here's a link. From the source: "Midgard is the realm of the humans in Norse mythology. Pictured as placed somewhere in the middle of Yggdrasil, Midgard is surrounded by a world of water or ocean, which is impassable. The ocean is inhabited by the great sea serpent Jormungand, who is so huge that he encircles the world entirely, grasping his own tail." In Tolkien's original conception, the Earth (including the Undying Lands, etc.) was a Viking ship floating in the sea of the Void. Above it was the dome of the Stars. I don't have a quote with me right now... __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

12-20-2005, 01:03 PM	#14
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	In order to keep a thread open, one must actually carry on a conversation with other interesrted parties within the context of the topic at hand of said thread. One has to answer or comment upon what another has said, you know, a conversation. Additionally, one cannot really consider a thread "dead" until it has received absolutely NO attention for more than a few weeks, not just a day or two. So, therte's no need to panic, silly goose! Welcome to Entmoot, BTW! I always figured Middle-Earth was an extra planet within our solar system, like an invisible, very small living planet which is mostly water, with Middle Earth like a gi-normous island, and a couple other continent-like islands there too, that perhaps had not been explored by elves or men yet and maybe have aboriginal-type peoples on it or a race of talking, self-governed animals or something... anyway, it's too early in the morning to be thinking this much. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 12-20-2005 at 01:04 PM.

12-13-2005, 08:31 PM	#3
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	Soory, but I must disagree. Middle-Earth is not only what we see on the maps in "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Silmarillion". Middle-Earth is the name of that part of Arda that lies between Belegear and the Eastern See. Thus there is Valinor which we could name Western-Earth and the Land of the Sun which could be names Eastern-Earth. Respectfully Findegil

12-15-2005, 10:27 PM	#7
Lenwë Lossëhelin Sapling Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 4	i dont know... and if Middle Earth is the realm of men....i wonder what upper earth would be? the realm of the Valar maybe? and nether earth could be the realm of morgoth...i dont know

12-16-2005, 08:02 PM	#9
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	It took place in Middle-Earth (mainly, some things are reproted from beyonde the western sea) because that was the original habitation of the Elves and Men. Respectfully Findegil

12-18-2005, 05:05 PM	#10
Merenwen Vardamir Enting Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ever Lost, Childress. Posts: 93	I think this thread... is dieing...... :'( I was wondering... I got nothing.... umm.... I must keep Lenwe's thread alive! Hysterical What- What- What- Cries Why do Dwarves and Elves hate each other? (I'm trying to help....)

12-18-2005, 11:09 PM	#12
Jon S. Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 455	There is a sort of "middle earth" concept in Hebrew (Judeo-Christian) mythology (term used here in the sociological sense), as well: God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the water, that it may separate water from water. God made the expanse and it separated the water which was below the expanse from the water which was above the expanse." The "water which was above the expanse" suggests a vault or dome over the earth, which people couldn't reach, beyond which the Divine dwelt (somewhat analogous to Valinor, I suppose). It was still water, though - e.g., when Noah's flood came, "And the flood-gates of the sky broke open," i.e., the dome breached and the water above came tumbling down through the sky as heavy rain. The expanse itself was the sky. The area below the expanse eventually became "middle earth" where men and women live - "Let the water below the sky be gathered into one area, that the dry land may appear." Since water flows down due to the effects of gravity, this would literally make the world of the Hebraic creation myth a 4-level world: (1) the water above the expanse; (2) the sky; (3) the dry land where people dwell ("middle earth"); and (4) the water below the expanse (the oceans/"deeps").

12-20-2005, 11:42 AM	#13
Merenwen Vardamir Enting Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ever Lost, Childress. Posts: 93	Somebody keep the thread going!!

12-20-2005, 02:57 PM	#15
Merenwen Vardamir Enting Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ever Lost, Childress. Posts: 93	Tehe... I'm a silly goose..... Hehehehe. Very detailed responce. I might just be prone to over-reacting.... lol. Lenwe... do I over-react?

12-20-2005, 03:35 PM	#16
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	if you read lost tales 1&2 (tolkien's first thoughts on his "world"), his idea was to introduce a new "fairy tale" or mythology into the world of british folklore... one unique to them, much like the norse have the eddas some of the earliest tales actually involved travel from the british isles themselves... so, in a very rough sense, middle earth is europe in a much earlier time his ideas changed a lot over time, and i don't think he ever intended a direct comparision... but he did base his ideas around this analogy, as opposed to just completely "making it up" __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

12-21-2005, 10:12 PM	#17
Lenwë Lossëhelin Sapling Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 4	yeah..i have read the book of lost tales 1 ...and i gave it to Merenwen (and yes you do over react by the way lol) i thought it was really good...and im wanting to get the second one. is it good?

12-21-2005, 10:15 PM	#18
durinsbane2244 Dreamweaver Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Misty Mountains, where the spirits go... Posts: 3,560	here's a thought, the entire map we see in the LotR is just the western tip of Middle Earth, just how big is it? __________________ Lord, what fools these mortals be! ---------------- We are the music-makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams, Wandering by lone sea-breakers, And sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, On whom the pale moon gleams: Yet we are the movers and shakers Of the world for ever, it seems. ---------------- Shanti, shanti, shantih...

12-23-2005, 12:25 PM	#19
Lenwë Lossëhelin Sapling Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 4	yeah i've always wondered what was east of Mordor on the map...hmm..

01-23-2006, 11:54 AM	#20
Merenwen Vardamir Enting Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ever Lost, Childress. Posts: 93	Now can I panic about the thread being dead? I wish I knew what to put to start conversation again..... What do you guys think is going to happen in Harry Potter 7? (Or am I not allowed to ask about HP on a LOTR thread? O.O) __________________ And lo, the beast looked upon the face of beauty. And beauty stayed his hand. And from that day on, he was as one dead. "But break my heart, for I must hold my tongue."

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
just wondering?	Carafin	Lord of the Rings Movies	1	05-21-2002 04:30 PM
Just Wondering	The_Real_Legolas	General Messages	8	02-04-2002 06:06 PM
i was wondering	LuthienTinuviel	Lord of the Rings Books	7	01-31-2002 05:11 PM
just wondering	Galahira_May	Lord of the Rings Books	16	01-04-2002 05:10 PM
I was wondering	samwise of the shire	General Messages	9	11-01-2001 05:44 PM