Whose fate would you change?

Kellquenti · 01-16-2005, 03:52 PM

I have asked this question before yet in a different way. If you were an all-powerful Valar and you could change the fate of any one Silmarillion character who would it be, and why? Would it be Feanor? Maedhros or any of his brothers? Maeglin? Eol? Finrod or even Morgorth himself? I know who I would choose!

Beren3000 · 01-16-2005, 03:57 PM

Good idea for a thread!

I'd probably change the fate of Turin, no one deserves such a life!
According to my version, he would have slain Glaurung, he would not have married Nienor and he would not marry in honor of Finduilas' memory.

I'd also change Fëanor's fate: I'd make it worse

He'd live until the War of Wrath and will then be brought to judgment in front of all the Valar.

Whose fate would you change?
(welcome to the Moot, btw

)

Embladyne · 01-16-2005, 04:05 PM

Turin is a good canidate, but Nienor's fate in some ways is sadder because she got sucked into it all, whereas Turin ignored the warnings he was given.
Hmmm....I'm not sure if this is my final answer, but it's a start....I may decide that some other soul is more deserving of a break.....But, there are SO many of them!!!

Telcontar_Dunedain · 01-16-2005, 04:11 PM

I'd change Melkor's fate so he never became evil so none of the bad things would have happened.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-16-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellquenti

I have asked this question before yet in a different way. If you were an all-powerful Valar and you could change the fate of any one Silmarillion character who would it be, and why? Would it be Feanor? Maedhros or any of his brothers? Maeglin? Eol? Finrod or even Morgorth himself? I know who I would choose!

I would change Finrod's fate so that he wouldn't die. Why? Cause I love him and he was such a cool dude and could have done so much good for Middle-earth had he lived.

Welcome to Entmoot Kellquenti.

Attalus · 01-16-2005, 04:51 PM

I'd have saved Finduilas. I hate that Glaurung got her, or his orcs, rather. Then she could marry Turin and it would have been all better. I think Gwindor's words are some of the saddest and most prophetic in the Sil77:

Quote:

Now, if you love me, leave me! Haste thee to Nargothrond , and save Finduilas. And this last I say to thee: she alone stands between thee and thy doom. If thou fail her, it shall not fail to find thee. Farewell!"

Never fails to raise goosebumps.

Radagast The Brown · 01-16-2005, 05:01 PM

It depends, I guess - because i'm not sure what 'changing their fate' means. Change that they've done, or chosen to do? So if I could change Feanor's fate, he wouldn't leave Valinor, and all the saddness of the Elves wouldn't... exist? That would be my choice, if that what you meant by fate.

Kellquenti · 01-16-2005, 05:08 PM

Thanks for your welcomes!. Beren 3000 I would choose Maedhros, He was an Elf torn in so many ways. Loyal to his father to the end, yet like Maglor had some compassion. As the eldest much was expected of him whether he wanted it or not. Yes,I would change the fate of Maedhros the tortured in body and soul . He suffered so much only to lose everything in the end as the oath became a curse. Thanks again to all who replied.

Pytt · 01-16-2005, 05:24 PM

I don't really know. the best thing would be to change Morgoth. then everything would be good, and none of the worlds tragics would have happend. Turin is another I would have changed, or maybe his father Hurin, so Morgoth hadn't laid the curse upon him.

Wayfarer · 01-16-2005, 07:27 PM

What do you mean by 'fate'?

Last Child of Ungoliant · 01-16-2005, 07:30 PM

i would change Thingol's fate, he was proud to the end, which caused to be his undoing, and there was no need for him to be set upon in the deepest halls of menegroth by the dwarves.

Lefty Scaevola · 01-16-2005, 11:54 PM

Hurin, who fought with more fortitude and bore more torment than anyone else without breaking, and even bore the will of Morgoth directly applied in person, yet in his old age was duped made a pawn by the Bauglir.

Kellquenti · 01-17-2005, 03:20 AM

Wayfarer, "Fate?". Choose it to be what you want. Either the way that person's life evolved, the way they died (or why). The way life treated them or their final destiny in the scheme of things. whether they made it that way themselves or not. If you could help just one of them to escape that "fate", who would it be?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-17-2005, 12:56 PM

I would change Aegnor's fate so that he would live and maybe get together with Andreth and have a few little half elflings, and then he would go to Valinor and be with his family and not stay in Mandos' halls untill the end of the world.

Elemmírë · 01-17-2005, 03:46 PM

I would change Arda's fate.

After that...

Findarato, Aicanaro... and the eldest two and youngest two Feanorions...

After that...

Probably everyone else...

Pytt · 01-17-2005, 06:18 PM

Everyone else? isn't that a bit to large move? I mean, everyone doesn't die or that sort of things. Look at Beren and Luthien, or Earandil. they have after all a happy ending. but as I think about it, almost no one else has, so go ahead.

Embladyne · 01-17-2005, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elemmire

I would change Arda's fate.

After that...

Findarato, Aicanaro... and the eldest two and youngest two Feanorions...

I always felt so sorry for them. Specially the twins.

Quote:

After that...

Probably everyone else...

Well...that would solve everything, but then there'd be so little to talk about in the Silm.

Mmm..more from the story of Turin
Finduilas, and Beleg

Durin1 · 01-18-2005, 08:33 AM

I think Tolkien outlined how Hurin's line would be restored during the Dagor Dagollath, whereby Turin would stand on the right hand side of Tulkas and would deliver the final death blow to Melkor, thereby gaining revenge for all the woes suffered by his family at the hands of Morgoth.

ItalianLegolas · 01-18-2005, 04:28 PM

I recall something like that... it would probably make sense to change Morgoth's, but you have to assume that if Morgoth didn't go bad, someone else would have...the question is who?

Last Child of Ungoliant · 01-18-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianLegolas

I recall something like that... it would probably make sense to change Morgoth's, but you have to assume that if Morgoth didn't go bad, someone else would have...the question is who?

well, it would have been olorin of course

or possibly feanor, he already had the makings of evil in him
and then thingol could have, he was far too proud for his own good
and i never trusted galadriel, she seems creepy if you ask me

01-16-2005, 03:52 PM	#1
Kellquenti Enting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midhurst UK Posts: 88	Whose fate would you change? I have asked this question before yet in a different way. If you were an all-powerful Valar and you could change the fate of any one Silmarillion character who would it be, and why? Would it be Feanor? Maedhros or any of his brothers? Maeglin? Eol? Finrod or even Morgorth himself? I know who I would choose!

01-16-2005, 04:05 PM	#3
Embladyne Honourary Elitist Inklette Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: between the mountains and the sea Posts: 704	Turin is a good canidate, but Nienor's fate in some ways is sadder because she got sucked into it all, whereas Turin ignored the warnings he was given. Hmmm....I'm not sure if this is my final answer, but it's a start....I may decide that some other soul is more deserving of a break.....But, there are SO many of them!!! __________________ Even on the pinnacle of a palace a crow does not become an eagle. My DA page

01-16-2005, 04:11 PM	#4
Telcontar_Dunedain Warrior of the House of Hador Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,651	I'd change Melkor's fate so he never became evil so none of the bad things would have happened. __________________ Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230

01-16-2005, 05:01 PM	#7
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	It depends, I guess - because i'm not sure what 'changing their fate' means. Change that they've done, or chosen to do? So if I could change Feanor's fate, he wouldn't leave Valinor, and all the saddness of the Elves wouldn't... exist? That would be my choice, if that what you meant by fate. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-16-2005, 05:24 PM	#9
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	I don't really know. the best thing would be to change Morgoth. then everything would be good, and none of the worlds tragics would have happend. Turin is another I would have changed, or maybe his father Hurin, so Morgoth hadn't laid the curse upon him. __________________ Don't Panic!

01-16-2005, 03:57 PM	#2
Beren3000 Fëanorophobic Join Date: May 2004 Location: Between the pages of a book Posts: 1,417	Good idea for a thread! I'd probably change the fate of Turin, no one deserves such a life! According to my version, he would have slain Glaurung, he would not have married Nienor and he would not marry in honor of Finduilas' memory. I'd also change Fëanor's fate: I'd make it worse He'd live until the War of Wrath and will then be brought to judgment in front of all the Valar. Whose fate would you change? (welcome to the Moot, btw )

01-16-2005, 05:08 PM	#8
Kellquenti Enting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midhurst UK Posts: 88	Thanks for your welcomes!. Beren 3000 I would choose Maedhros, He was an Elf torn in so many ways. Loyal to his father to the end, yet like Maglor had some compassion. As the eldest much was expected of him whether he wanted it or not. Yes,I would change the fate of Maedhros the tortured in body and soul . He suffered so much only to lose everything in the end as the oath became a curse. Thanks again to all who replied.

01-16-2005, 07:27 PM	#10
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	What do you mean by 'fate'? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-16-2005, 07:30 PM	#11
Last Child of Ungoliant The Intermittent One Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: here and there Posts: 4,671	i would change Thingol's fate, he was proud to the end, which caused to be his undoing, and there was no need for him to be set upon in the deepest halls of menegroth by the dwarves.

01-16-2005, 11:54 PM	#12
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Hurin, who fought with more fortitude and bore more torment than anyone else without breaking, and even bore the will of Morgoth directly applied in person, yet in his old age was duped made a pawn by the Bauglir. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

01-17-2005, 03:20 AM	#13
Kellquenti Enting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midhurst UK Posts: 88	Wayfarer, "Fate?". Choose it to be what you want. Either the way that person's life evolved, the way they died (or why). The way life treated them or their final destiny in the scheme of things. whether they made it that way themselves or not. If you could help just one of them to escape that "fate", who would it be?

01-17-2005, 12:56 PM	#14
*Sister Golden Hair* Queen of Nargothrond Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Akron, Ohio - USA Posts: 7,121	I would change Aegnor's fate so that he would live and maybe get together with Andreth and have a few little half elflings, and then he would go to Valinor and be with his family and not stay in Mandos' halls untill the end of the world. __________________ "Whither go you?" she said. "North away." he said: "to the swords, and the siege, and the walls of defence - that yet for a while in Beleriand rivers may run clean, leaves spring, and birds build their nests, ere Night comes." AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

01-17-2005, 03:46 PM	#15
Elemmírë avocatus diaboli Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Himring Posts: 1,582	I would change Arda's fate. After that... Findarato, Aicanaro... and the eldest two and youngest two Feanorions... After that... Probably everyone else... __________________ ~ I have heard the languages of apocalypse and now I shall embrace the silence ~ Neil Gaiman

01-17-2005, 06:18 PM	#16
Pytt The Supreme Lord of The Northern Eagles Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: trondheim, norway Posts: 1,388	Everyone else? isn't that a bit to large move? I mean, everyone doesn't die or that sort of things. Look at Beren and Luthien, or Earandil. they have after all a happy ending. but as I think about it, almost no one else has, so go ahead. __________________ Don't Panic!

01-18-2005, 08:33 AM	#18
Durin1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 221	I think Tolkien outlined how Hurin's line would be restored during the Dagor Dagollath, whereby Turin would stand on the right hand side of Tulkas and would deliver the final death blow to Melkor, thereby gaining revenge for all the woes suffered by his family at the hands of Morgoth. __________________ Durin the Sleepless!

01-18-2005, 04:28 PM	#19
ItalianLegolas Tolkien-aholic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: somewhere in the solar system... more specifically NJ... Posts: 712	I recall something like that... it would probably make sense to change Morgoth's, but you have to assume that if Morgoth didn't go bad, someone else would have...the question is who? __________________ What was lost is now found.

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