Chronicles of Narnia Movie - The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe - Page 8

inked · 05-17-2006, 10:03 PM

I am afraid that Tilda indeed thinks just that way. But you can backtrack to the original interview if you feel it may have been slanted.

My Pullman comment was intended to be disingenuous. He hates Narnia for explicit religious reasons: his own hatred of religion. He thinks Narnia full of Christian nonsense. That obviously would not accord with Tilda, would it?
Just the mental picture of that tea chat made me laugh!

Speaking of images, how's this strike ya?
http://www.narniafans.com/?id=860

Goooooooo, Aslan!

For the simpletons like meself, it's pretty obvious who gets beaten by whom and why, and it is NOT a matter of interpretation at all.

hectorberlioz · 05-18-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inked

I am afraid that Tilda indeed thinks just that way. But you can backtrack to the original interview if you feel it may have been slanted.

My Pullman comment was intended to be disingenuous. He hates Narnia for explicit religious reasons: his own hatred of religion. He thinks Narnia full of Christian nonsense. That obviously would not accord with Tilda, would it?
Just the mental picture of that tea chat made me laugh!

Speaking of images, how's this strike ya?
http://www.narniafans.com/?id=860

Goooooooo, Aslan!

For the simpletons like meself, it's pretty obvious who gets beaten by whom and why, and it is NOT a matter of interpretation at all.

Two turtles on the same track, but arguing about what the track is about eh?

Mercutio · 05-26-2006, 09:53 PM

I (finally) saw Narnia. I can't comment about Aslan's voice, however, because I watched the German-dubbed version. (Interestingly, some of my friends informed me that in this version, a few scenes were missing little bits--like the centuar pulling out his swords from left and right and Aslan getting shaved).

This is from the weblog of the editors of a Christian journal:

Quote:

Christopher W. Cowan of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood sent me the following observation about the upcoming Disney film version of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe:

Quote:

I just finished reading The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe to my four-year-old son, Zachary.

When Father Christmas presents gifts to the children, he gives Peter a sword and shield. To Susan, he gives a bow and arrows and a horn. He then tells her, "You must use the bow only in great need, for I do not mean you to fight in the battle." Next, he gives Lucy a bottle and a dagger and says, "The dagger is to defend yourself at great need. For you also are not to be in the battle."

Lucy responds, "Why sir? I think---I don't know---but I think I could be brave enough." To which Father Christmas replies, "That is not the point. But battles are ugly when women fight."

During the battle at the end, Peter and Edmund---not Susan and Lucy---are the ones waging war against Aslan's enemies.

I have read good reports from Gene Veith that Douglas Gresham (C. S. Lewis's stepson) has sought to keep the movie faithful to the book. I cannot wait to see the film. But I will be thoroughly shocked if Lewis's vision wins out over contemporary feminism (particularly since I have seen clips of Susan wielding her bow). I hope I am wrong.

I am more optimistic than Chris that the film will stay faithful to Lewis (if only to keep from offending Narnia-lovers everywhere), but his point is valid. How strange will such "mere Christian" notions seem to a film audience accustomed to seeing Warrior Princesses knocking the teeth out of their foes?

Thoughts?

Acalewia · 05-28-2006, 03:35 PM

I'm glad they were true to the book.

inked · 06-05-2006, 04:23 PM

Of interest, from narniafans.com ...

Adamson recognized for Services to Film
05 Jun 2006 by Paul Martin

New Zealand-born director Andrew Ralph Adamson has been recognised for his services to film. He has been made a Member of the New Zealand Order of Merit, in the Queen's Birthday Honours. Adamson inhabits a different world in the same industry. He now lives in Los Angeles and his last film, The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, was one of the biggest box office hits of last year, grossing US$428 million ($679 million). The film earned a Golden Globe nomination and an Oscar for make-up. He also directed the animated box-office monsters Shrek and Shrek 2.

sun-star · 06-07-2006, 04:24 AM

Quote:

I have read good reports from Gene Veith that Douglas Gresham (C. S. Lewis's stepson) has sought to keep the movie faithful to the book. I cannot wait to see the film. But I will be thoroughly shocked if Lewis's vision wins out over contemporary feminism (particularly since I have seen clips of Susan wielding her bow). I hope I am wrong.

I don't see what's wrong with that, since Susan wields her bow quite expertly on several occasions in the books. Jill's even more ready to fight alongside the boys in The Last Battle. Lewis may not have believed women should fight in battles (though actually Father Christmas doesn't say that - and let's not get into the question of when a fictional character can be said to be speaking for his creator). But I think it's best to take our ideas about what's faithful to the books from the books themselves, rather than from what we would like Lewis to be saying.

tolkienfan · 06-07-2006, 02:33 PM

Doesn't Lucy fight in The Horse and His Boy? I seem to remember someone saying that she did.

I found it:
"Oh what nonsense!" Corin burst out. "of course I'm going to fight. Why, the Queen Lucy's going to be with the archers."

inked · 06-09-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun-star

I don't see what's wrong with that, since Susan wields her bow quite expertly on several occasions in the books. Jill's even more ready to fight alongside the boys in The Last Battle. Lewis may not have believed women should fight in battles (though actually Father Christmas doesn't say that - and let's not get into the question of when a fictional character can be said to be speaking for his creator). But I think it's best to take our ideas about what's faithful to the books from the books themselves, rather than from what we would like Lewis to be saying.

Oh, sun-star, you mean the author actually had a meaning which he intended to convey? Be still my thudding heart, sun-star has not caved in to modernism or post-modernism! How very medieval of her.

sun-star · 06-09-2006, 11:11 AM

What can I say, I'm an Oxford medievalist. The most antiquated kind

GreyMouser · 06-09-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercutio

I (finally) saw Narnia. I can't comment about Aslan's voice, however, because I watched the German-dubbed version. (Interestingly, some of my friends informed me that in this version, a few scenes were missing little bits--like the centuar pulling out his swords from left and right and Aslan getting shaved).

This is from the weblog of the editors of a Christian journal:

Thoughts?

Does the author think that Lucy should be written out of "A Horse and His Boy" to fit his own stereotypes?
Should Susan be shown running from the bear in "Prince Caspian" because that's what girls are like?

Zilbanne · 06-10-2006, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotesse

They could have done WAY better, for instance, with Aslan's fur. His fur looked like a bunch of cobras constantly wiggling around, it did not flow like real fur.

My red Australian Shepherd dog has fur exactly like Aslan did in the movie. Respectfully, it's interesting what you said. I thought that they couldn't make it MORE like real fur for Aslan.

hectorberlioz · 06-16-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun-star

What can I say, I'm an Oxford medievalist. The most antiquated kind

I love Antiques

inked · 06-19-2006, 12:38 PM

Narnia DVD creates history in India

16 Jun 2006 Paul Martin | (Narnia Films)

The Chronicles of Narnia has created history in the growing home entertainment sector by becoming the highest selling Disney DVD since its release last month. The Movie acquired the feat by dethroning Lion King by over 30% in sales. Daniel Solnicki, vice president, Buena Vista Home Entertainment International says, “The success of the DVD has been phenomenal in India echoing its success worldwide (as the highest selling DVD of 2006). The growing hardware (DVD / VCD players) penetration and the aggressive marketing efforts by our partner in India are taking the home entertainment business to new heights.”

http://www.narniafans.com/

***azalea*** · 07-07-2006, 10:14 PM

Belated comment: It is a fact that Lewis did include some gender bias in the Chronicles. He held notions that were common in his time.
[Example: he, through his characters, states more than once that girls are poor at directional tasks ("can't carry a map in there heads" to which Lucy replies "because we have something in them", but doesn't argue the fact that girls are worse at directions than boys). Lewis obviously hadn't met my husband.

There are other examples.]

That doesn't undermine the books, IMO.

I would say that battles are ugly affairs, period, although sometimes necessary.

We do of course know that there are differences between women and men, but it doesn't mean that women shouldn't be afforded the same choices and opportunities as men, just as men should be afforded the same as women. All people should have (and technically, they all do have) the ability to choose their own actions.

The fact that Movie Susan and Lucy take on a small part of the battle at the end of it does perhaps compromise Lewis' views about women in battle, but the little boy and girl in the audience whose aunt is fighting in Iraq sees nothing amiss. Lewis would probably think they should, though.

sun-star · 07-10-2006, 12:58 PM

I agree with all that

. Though I do think the comment Mercutio quoted misinterprets Lewis' brand of antifeminism. The attitude to women varies through the Chronicles - Jill and Lucy are very different from Susan (and from each other), and are allowed to play different roles.

***azalea*** · 07-12-2006, 05:36 PM

Right, and as someone else said, in HHB it is indicated that Lucy fights with the archers. I whole heartedly agree that different books in the series and different passages treat women's issues differently. Bottom line, I think that one shouldn't regard the omission of certain passages as having been done by design and/or a negative thing just because its inclusion would tend to support one's own views. Hope that makes sense.

Butterbeer · 07-12-2006, 05:41 PM

well, i tend to agree, but mainly because on the evidence that the whole film was so apallingly shoddily done... it is clearly unclear to base any reading on the basis of it!

just to be clear are we talking about the books or that lamentable pile of pap that was the movie (with its subsequent arrogant tasteless commercial 'novelisiations') here ?

True fans of Lewis stand up and be heard, say I!

best, BB

***azalea*** · 07-13-2006, 10:20 AM

I was responding to the quote Mercutio posted above, in which the writer stated that he'd be disappointed to see Movie Lucy and/or Susan fighting in the battle. His point was that if they did, then Hollywood was pandering to modern feminist ideas rather than staying true to Lewis' ideas of women and war.

But as others stated, Lewis apparently didn't have a problem with adult Lucy being an archer in later battles. It just seemed to me that the writer of the above quote was placing too much importance on the matter.

Huorn · 07-16-2006, 06:34 PM

I have always been an avid Tolkien fan, but the shortfall of Tolkien's books is that they are so dominately male, especially in the department of the characters that are appealing to my tastes. Lewis on the other hand does not have races where all their women have disappeared. Lewis' stories also have much more female representation. It is these aspects of Lewis stories that I find more appealing.

The movie is also a little more watchable for me then the LoTR film because it isn't as dark in tone.

05-17-2006, 10:03 PM	#141
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	I am afraid that Tilda indeed thinks just that way. But you can backtrack to the original interview if you feel it may have been slanted. My Pullman comment was intended to be disingenuous. He hates Narnia for explicit religious reasons: his own hatred of religion. He thinks Narnia full of Christian nonsense. That obviously would not accord with Tilda, would it? Just the mental picture of that tea chat made me laugh! Speaking of images, how's this strike ya? http://www.narniafans.com/?id=860 Goooooooo, Aslan! For the simpletons like meself, it's pretty obvious who gets beaten by whom and why, and it is NOT a matter of interpretation at all. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

05-28-2006, 03:35 PM	#144
Acalewia Halfelven Daughter of the Dunedain, President of Entmoot Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In trouble. As usual. Posts: 4,674	I'm glad they were true to the book. __________________ "Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life!"~ inked Don't meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. "Don't be such a sour wolf" Stiles ~ Heart Monitor http://www.wattpad.com/user/IceQueenofMitera

06-05-2006, 04:23 PM	#145
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Of interest, from narniafans.com ... Adamson recognized for Services to Film 05 Jun 2006 by Paul Martin New Zealand-born director Andrew Ralph Adamson has been recognised for his services to film. He has been made a Member of the New Zealand Order of Merit, in the Queen's Birthday Honours. Adamson inhabits a different world in the same industry. He now lives in Los Angeles and his last film, The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, was one of the biggest box office hits of last year, grossing US$428 million ($679 million). The film earned a Golden Globe nomination and an Oscar for make-up. He also directed the animated box-office monsters Shrek and Shrek 2. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

06-07-2006, 02:33 PM	#147
tolkienfan Elf Lord Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Internet Posts: 803	Doesn't Lucy fight in The Horse and His Boy? I seem to remember someone saying that she did. I found it: "Oh what nonsense!" Corin burst out. "of course I'm going to fight. Why, the Queen Lucy's going to be with the archers." __________________ Don't be hasty! Thanks so much to Last Child of Ungoliant, Twista, and BeardofPants for my avatar! Last edited by tolkienfan : 06-09-2006 at 12:47 PM.

06-09-2006, 11:11 AM	#149
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	What can I say, I'm an Oxford medievalist. The most antiquated kind __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

06-19-2006, 12:38 PM	#153
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Narnia DVD creates history in India 16 Jun 2006 Paul Martin \| (Narnia Films) The Chronicles of Narnia has created history in the growing home entertainment sector by becoming the highest selling Disney DVD since its release last month. The Movie acquired the feat by dethroning Lion King by over 30% in sales. Daniel Solnicki, vice president, Buena Vista Home Entertainment International says, “The success of the DVD has been phenomenal in India echoing its success worldwide (as the highest selling DVD of 2006). The growing hardware (DVD / VCD players) penetration and the aggressive marketing efforts by our partner in India are taking the home entertainment business to new heights.” http://www.narniafans.com/ __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

07-07-2006, 10:14 PM	#154
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Belated comment: It is a fact that Lewis did include some gender bias in the Chronicles. He held notions that were common in his time. [Example: he, through his characters, states more than once that girls are poor at directional tasks ("can't carry a map in there heads" to which Lucy replies "because we have something in them", but doesn't argue the fact that girls are worse at directions than boys). Lewis obviously hadn't met my husband. There are other examples.] That doesn't undermine the books, IMO. I would say that battles are ugly affairs, period, although sometimes necessary. We do of course know that there are differences between women and men, but it doesn't mean that women shouldn't be afforded the same choices and opportunities as men, just as men should be afforded the same as women. All people should have (and technically, they all do have) the ability to choose their own actions. The fact that Movie Susan and Lucy take on a small part of the battle at the end of it does perhaps compromise Lewis' views about women in battle, but the little boy and girl in the audience whose aunt is fighting in Iraq sees nothing amiss. Lewis would probably think they should, though.

07-10-2006, 12:58 PM	#155
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	I agree with all that . Though I do think the comment Mercutio quoted misinterprets Lewis' brand of antifeminism. The attitude to women varies through the Chronicles - Jill and Lucy are very different from Susan (and from each other), and are allowed to play different roles.

07-12-2006, 05:36 PM	#156
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Right, and as someone else said, in HHB it is indicated that Lucy fights with the archers. I whole heartedly agree that different books in the series and different passages treat women's issues differently. Bottom line, I think that one shouldn't regard the omission of certain passages as having been done by design and/or a negative thing just because its inclusion would tend to support one's own views. Hope that makes sense.

07-12-2006, 05:41 PM	#157
Butterbeer Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: here and there Posts: 3,514	well, i tend to agree, but mainly because on the evidence that the whole film was so apallingly shoddily done... it is clearly unclear to base any reading on the basis of it! just to be clear are we talking about the books or that lamentable pile of pap that was the movie (with its subsequent arrogant tasteless commercial 'novelisiations') here ? True fans of Lewis stand up and be heard, say I! best, BB Last edited by Butterbeer : 07-12-2006 at 05:44 PM.

07-13-2006, 10:20 AM	#158
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I was responding to the quote Mercutio posted above, in which the writer stated that he'd be disappointed to see Movie Lucy and/or Susan fighting in the battle. His point was that if they did, then Hollywood was pandering to modern feminist ideas rather than staying true to Lewis' ideas of women and war. But as others stated, Lewis apparently didn't have a problem with adult Lucy being an archer in later battles. It just seemed to me that the writer of the above quote was placing too much importance on the matter.

07-16-2006, 06:34 PM	#159
Huorn Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Fangorn's Treeherd Posts: 393	I have always been an avid Tolkien fan, but the shortfall of Tolkien's books is that they are so dominately male, especially in the department of the characters that are appealing to my tastes. Lewis on the other hand does not have races where all their women have disappeared. Lewis' stories also have much more female representation. It is these aspects of Lewis stories that I find more appealing. The movie is also a little more watchable for me then the LoTR film because it isn't as dark in tone. __________________ Silver Valley Oak As for me and my house we will serve the LORD Just call me Oakie