Are there any RPG's that don't use advancement systems?

Captain Stern · 11-14-2001, 05:31 PM

I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks this but I hate the whole advancement thing that you get with every rpg I've seen.

Example:

Bob Billson lives in a quaint little village a few miles from Baldur's Gate. Bob Billson soon becomes tired of his life in the village and decides to go out adventuring. After a month or two of adventuring Bob Billson decides to return home so his mum can wash his dirty laundry. Bob Billson soon discovers that he's like the arch angel of death compared to everyone else in the village and that he could wipe out the whole village if he wanted!

To me advancement lessens the realism of Role Playing and so it becomes more like a game and less like escapism.

So does any one know if there are any RPG's out there that don't have an advancement system or perhaps then a more realistic advancement system?

***Tessar*** · 11-17-2001, 11:52 PM

well there are always the miniature games,

(the LOTR one looks cool) they dont have an advancemen thingy.

Canaan · 12-24-2001, 12:54 AM

Well, I'm a bit late in responding to this, but better late than never. I have never come across any RPG that does not have some sort of advancment system, but I have come across some that are more realistic than others. There is, for example, the game King Arthur Pendragon, which was originally published by Chaosium and is now published by Green Knight. The advancement system is based upon the idea that a character usually adventures in the spring and summer and then spends time training during the winter. During these winter training sessions, he has a chance of slightly improving the skills that he successfully utilized the previous summer, and he can also improve upon other skills as well.

Character advancement, therefore, allows for gradual improvements here and there, and it usually takes a long time to develop an "arch angel of death" dude. And even then, no one is invincible. One of the greatest NPC knights in the game is Sir Lancelot, but in a tournament I was running he was dropped by a young, mediocre knight. I was basically the luck of the dice.

On a side note, it has been my opinion that this game could be adapted pretty well into a LOTR setting (although I have yet to try). As such, I think it would work better than MERP.

Nimril · 01-09-2002, 07:53 PM

Last I heard Green Knight was having financial problems and may be no longer.

Harnmaster is a skill-based system (not level based) system compatible with Middle-Earth. Or Runequest and Gurps.

Or perhaps the new Lord of the Rings game by Decipher by Steve Long (who recently quit Decipher to co-own and develop Hero Games). Upcoming Spring is the latest on its release.

Nimril

afro-elf · 01-10-2002, 04:30 AM

I don't know if you mean pen and paper or electronic.

But there are several Diceless systems that focus on telling a story.

Or if you are using a skill based game you can just create a character and adventure for the fun of it and have the character basically stay the same.

I downloaded a site that uses a modified diceless Amber system for a ME/LOTR RPG that is cool. If you would like it I can email it to you.

Kiri · 01-11-2002, 06:30 PM

GURPS is generally my favorite to start from, although it would take some refitting to fit Middle Earth. The "vanilla" GURPS magic system is way too mechanistic, but it has an alternate in GURPS Spirits that might fit the bill to some extent (again with refitting).

Generally, characters in GURPS tend to become broader and broader in knowledge instead of becoming end-all and be-all in something.

Quazar · 01-11-2002, 09:37 PM

Well I played AD&D for about 15 years until the 'been there done that' became the norm. I can see from experience that the advancement thing can become obsevive. But getting bigger, better, stronger, etc. is the very essence of RPG.
However if you want something shorter term I would like to suggest the collectable card game 'Magic:
The Gathering'. You can easily play several games in an hour or so. I will warn you it can become obsevive and expensive.

11-14-2001, 05:31 PM	#1
Captain Stern Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 319	Are there any RPG's that don't use advancement systems? I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks this but I hate the whole advancement thing that you get with every rpg I've seen. Example: Bob Billson lives in a quaint little village a few miles from Baldur's Gate. Bob Billson soon becomes tired of his life in the village and decides to go out adventuring. After a month or two of adventuring Bob Billson decides to return home so his mum can wash his dirty laundry. Bob Billson soon discovers that he's like the arch angel of death compared to everyone else in the village and that he could wipe out the whole village if he wanted! To me advancement lessens the realism of Role Playing and so it becomes more like a game and less like escapism. So does any one know if there are any RPG's out there that don't have an advancement system or perhaps then a more realistic advancement system?

01-10-2002, 04:30 AM	#5
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I don't know if you mean pen and paper or electronic. But there are several Diceless systems that focus on telling a story. Or if you are using a skill based game you can just create a character and adventure for the fun of it and have the character basically stay the same. I downloaded a site that uses a modified diceless Amber system for a ME/LOTR RPG that is cool. If you would like it I can email it to you. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 01-11-2002 at 06:41 PM.

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11-17-2001, 11:52 PM	#2
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	well there are always the miniature games, (the LOTR one looks cool) they dont have an advancemen thingy.

12-24-2001, 12:54 AM	#3
Canaan Sapling Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1	Well, I'm a bit late in responding to this, but better late than never. I have never come across any RPG that does not have some sort of advancment system, but I have come across some that are more realistic than others. There is, for example, the game King Arthur Pendragon, which was originally published by Chaosium and is now published by Green Knight. The advancement system is based upon the idea that a character usually adventures in the spring and summer and then spends time training during the winter. During these winter training sessions, he has a chance of slightly improving the skills that he successfully utilized the previous summer, and he can also improve upon other skills as well. Character advancement, therefore, allows for gradual improvements here and there, and it usually takes a long time to develop an "arch angel of death" dude. And even then, no one is invincible. One of the greatest NPC knights in the game is Sir Lancelot, but in a tournament I was running he was dropped by a young, mediocre knight. I was basically the luck of the dice. On a side note, it has been my opinion that this game could be adapted pretty well into a LOTR setting (although I have yet to try). As such, I think it would work better than MERP.

01-09-2002, 07:53 PM	#4
Nimril Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1	Last I heard Green Knight was having financial problems and may be no longer. Harnmaster is a skill-based system (not level based) system compatible with Middle-Earth. Or Runequest and Gurps. Or perhaps the new Lord of the Rings game by Decipher by Steve Long (who recently quit Decipher to co-own and develop Hero Games). Upcoming Spring is the latest on its release. Nimril

01-11-2002, 06:30 PM	#6
Kiri Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 42	GURPS is generally my favorite to start from, although it would take some refitting to fit Middle Earth. The "vanilla" GURPS magic system is way too mechanistic, but it has an alternate in GURPS Spirits that might fit the bill to some extent (again with refitting). Generally, characters in GURPS tend to become broader and broader in knowledge instead of becoming end-all and be-all in something.

01-11-2002, 09:37 PM	#7
Quazar Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Piedmont North Carolina Posts: 33	Well I played AD&D for about 15 years until the 'been there done that' became the norm. I can see from experience that the advancement thing can become obsevive. But getting bigger, better, stronger, etc. is the very essence of RPG. However if you want something shorter term I would like to suggest the collectable card game 'Magic: The Gathering'. You can easily play several games in an hour or so. I will warn you it can become obsevive and expensive.