Better than LOTR?

[The Gaffer]

I guess Gordis is citing Elrond at the Council saying that there were only a few who could do so.

We should remember that those elves that remained hadn't left YET; if they were that down about things they'd just head for the Havens.

(Was it Melkor's marring or was it the Valar's abandonment of Middle-Earth?)

Or maybe "tra la la lilly" is elvish for "oh god I'm soooo depressed"

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Are you assuming that any and all Noldor from Aman could ride against the Nazgul or is there evidence of this?

There is evidence that Calaquendi Elves don't fear nazgul as they have power in the World of Shadow:

And here in Rivendell there live still some of [Sauron's] chief foes: the Elven-wise, lords of the Eldar from beyond the furthest seas. They do not fear the Ringwraiths, for those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm live at once in both worlds, and against both the Seen and the Unseen they have great power.'
'I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?'
'Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the mighty of the Firstborn. -LOTR ,"Many meetings"

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Even with that quote, I'm still not convinced all Noldor or Calaquendi are equally equipped to face the Ringwraiths. Not unless every Calaquende is also considered an Elven-wise lord of the Eldar. Maybe by that point in the 3rd Age they all are. I'm not disagreeing, I'd just like a little more convincing.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Both, honestly. But more the singing Rivendell elves.

They were supposed to be (at least some of them) Noldor!

Yes, Tolkien has Elves fond of singing throughout the legendarium. But they sing things like the Noldolantë or Galadriel's Lament...

Not 'tra la la lilly'!

It was just hard for me to accept it as the same universe, because they acted so differently.

And don't get me started on the movies.

Maybe they were just sort of mocking the Dwarves. Or thought they were, and the Dwarves didn't get it. Or the Dwarves got it - and it went right over Bilbo's head. Or maybe they were making fun of the Dwarves for bringing a Hobbit along... and THAT went right over Bilbo's head.

Complex creatures, them Elves.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

Even with that quote, I'm still not convinced all Noldor or Calaquendi are equally equipped to face the Ringwraiths. Not unless every Calaquende is also considered an Elven-wise lord of the Eldar. Maybe by that point in the 3rd Age they all are. I'm not disagreeing, I'd just like a little more convincing.

All Calaquendi?- Yes: because they (by definition) had dwelt in the Blessed Realm, had seen the Light of the Trees, and thus got additional properties: powers in the Other World. I think the Calaquendi have become so rare by the End of TA that they were held in high esteem and called "Lords of the Eldar" irrespective of their original status in Aman.

All Noldor? - No: because a son born to two Noldor in ME would be a Noldo, but not a Calaquendi.
Elrond surely was "Elven-wise lord of the Eldar", but, born in ME, he had never set foot in Aman. He didn't ride against the nazgul in person, either in 3018, or back in 1975. Nor did he send his sons, (not even mentioning his daughter ,).

[Curufin]

Originally Posted by Gordis

All Calaquendi?- Yes: because they (by definition) had dwelt in the Blessed Realm, had seen the Light of the Trees, and thus got additional properties: powers in the Other World. I think the Calaquendi have become so rare by the End of TA that they were held in high esteem and called "Lords of the Eldar" irrespective of their original status in Aman.

All Noldor? - No: because a son born to two Noldor in ME would be a Noldo, but not a Calaquendi.
Elrond surely was "Elven-wise lord of the Eldar", but, born in ME, he had never set foot in Aman. He didn't ride against the nazgul in person, either in 3018, or back in 1975. Nor did he send his sons, (not even mentioning his daughter ,).

Too bad Maglor didn't choose that moment to show up and kill him some Ringwraith.

This does lead me to a serious question which has bothered me since the first time I read Lord of the Rings, though. Why Legolas? Why didn't they send Glorfindel with the fellowship instead, when he was so much more powerful? After all, the Balrog of Moria would have been old news for him.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Too bad Maglor didn't choose that moment to show up and kill him some Ringwraith.

I think Maglor, even if still alive, would be long past all killings.

Originally Posted by Curufin

This does lead me to a serious question which has bothered me since the first time I read Lord of the Rings, though. Why Legolas? Why didn't they send Glorfindel with the fellowship instead, when he was so much more powerful? After all, the Balrog of Moria would have been old news for him.

Right because of that: they relied on stealth, not power. In nazgul's vision Glorfindel would be shining like a beacon of white light - impossible to miss. Were Glorfindel with Frodo and Sam, they would have been caught many times over: in Emyn Muil, in the Dead Marches, near the Black Gate, in the Morgul Vale and so on.

[Curufin]

Originally Posted by Gordis

I think Maglor, even if still alive, would be long past all killings.

Yes, hence the smilies. And then there's the question if Maglor was ever that good of a warrior in the first place...we never really see him do anything terribly courageous, even in the first age...

Right because of that: they relied on stealth, not power. In nazgul's vision Glorfindel would be shining like a beacon of white light - impossible to miss. Were Glorfindel with Frodo and Sam, they would have been caught many times over: in Emyn Muil, in the Dead Marches, near the Black Gate, in the Morgul Vale and so on.

This is a good point that I'd forgotten about. Thanks for reminding me. But still, it seems like they could have found someone better than Legolas, who as far as I surmise, wasn't that great of a warrior as far as Elves go. They could have waited for Elladan or Elrohir (or both) to return, or I'm sure there were many other Elven-warriors...but I wonder if perhaps Tolkien was trying to enforce his theme of how even small and insignificant creatures (like Hobbits) have a part to play...

[Earniel]

We wandered a bit from the topic here. Let's get back on topic, please.

[Gordis]

Umm... about Legolas: see here: http://www.entmoot.com/showpost.php?...1&postcount=55
*runs away before Earniel returns*.

[Curufin]

Thanks, Gordis...

ANYWAY, back on topic...

No, I don't think The Hobbit is better than The Lord of the Rings...that said, I think The Silmarillion is better than either...