The Elves...

Nariel Starfire · 08-10-2002, 10:16 AM

OUt of curiosity...
The Elvenking in the Hobbit... was that Thranduil? If so, would not Legolas have lived in the cave as well, and if so, doesn't that conflict with his hatred of caves?

Faramir · 08-10-2002, 10:57 AM

Perhaps Legolas wasn't born yet. Then his hatred of caves is probably what made him decide to go on adventures and leave home.

afro-elf · 08-10-2002, 12:31 PM

Very interesting question. It says that Thranduil hall were modeled after Menegroth though less splendid. I would say that it was a dislike of natural caves as opposed to and unground city.

He seemed fine in Moria ( I think), but he seemed ill at ease with the glittering caves.

Nariel Starfire · 08-10-2002, 02:29 PM

well, he was fine once there, but when they asked, he said that he didn't want to go to Moria.
Legolas was nearly 3000 years old in FOTR. The hobbit was only 60 years after that.

afro-elf · 08-10-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Legolas was nearly 3000 years old in FOTR

In NONE of Tolkien's work is Legolas's age given. PJ in his Horrible Movie info somewhere makes him nearly 3,000. But Tolkien NEVER mentions his age.

Claenoic · 08-10-2002, 06:09 PM

But I always thought that Legolas was there when the dwarves were hauled in. Who knows though? Glorfindel lived for quite some time and still looked moderately young.

afro-elf · 08-11-2002, 04:28 AM

Legolas is not mentioned in the Hobbit.

Elves will look "young" forever.

Galadriel is well over 10,000 years old and she is still a babe.

Artanis · 08-11-2002, 06:05 AM

I don't think Legolas, or the Wood-Elves in general, hated caves. They just preferred the open air and growing things around them. Caves they used for storage and shelter, and for their protection when the outside world made it necessary.

Radagast The Brown · 08-11-2002, 02:58 PM

if Legolas were younger then 60 years old, he wasn't go to war. It's a very young age for elves. I always thought he was 500 years old in FOTR... but i don't know that.

afro-elf · 08-11-2002, 03:13 PM

Elves were considered adult at age 50.

Radagast The Brown · 08-11-2002, 03:17 PM

and that mean they let their sons to go to a war in this age? I don't think Legolas could be such a good ranger without at least 60 years.

afro-elf · 08-11-2002, 03:25 PM

We let are soldiers go to war at 18. When they become an adult.

Also, its when their bodies mature. Their minds are quicker.

Also, He is not a Ranger.

Radagast The Brown · 08-12-2002, 02:55 PM

I meant archer (bow-man?)

and maybe you let your soldiers to go to war at this age, but usually we let them to go to war a few years later... 20 years old?

afro-elf · 08-12-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

and maybe you let your soldiers to go to war at this age, but usually we let them to go to war a few years later... 20 years old?

The point was that Elves may have fought as soon as they reached adulthood.

Radagast The Brown · 08-13-2002, 03:37 PM

Quote:

The point was that Elves may have fought as soon as they reached adulthood.

could be. we will never know for sure.

The Lady of Ithilien · 08-14-2002, 07:49 PM

The books aren't in front of me right now, but at some point in The Two Towers while they're in the vicinity of Fangorn, Legolas notes that he's watched many an oak grow from acorn to ruinous age.

He doesn't say this has been consecutively, of course, but that's the impression I got. That gives us something to go on.

An oak's life span varies according to species -- there's a 500-year-old live oak (sans a lichen beard, unfortunately) in Magnolia Springs, Alabama, for instance. But that tree needs a warmer climate than likely existed for Mirkwood. In Ithlien maybe, but not in the northern forest, which from Bilbo's description sounded like a typical northern hardwood forest in its southernmost reaches, with beech, birch, maple and a lot of oaks.

Oak species more likely to be found in there where winter held sway during part of the year likely had a slightly less lengthy lifespan than a live oak: on a quick Net search, I learned that the oldest white oak east of the Mississippi River, for instance, is some 370 years old, and bur oaks live 300 to 400 years.

Figuring 300 to 400 years at a crack, Legolas is telling us that's he's been around a long time.

He didn't stand out in The Hobbit, but then his dad's only concessions to kingly attire were a crown of leaves or flowers, depending on the season, and a carved staff (of oak, if I remember right). The Wood Elves were apparently not big on pomp and easily recognizable symbols of rank, so to Bilbo (who had a lot of other stuff to think about at the time and certainly wasn't likely to be present at meals and elvish celebrations where rank would have been more obvious) Legolas would just have seemed to be another elf.

UnStashable · 08-27-2002, 12:01 PM

There is also a dialogue between Gandalf and Legolas in the Two Towers about the Golden Hall in Edoras of Rohan. Gandalf says that too the men of rohan it seems like time began when that hall was built Legolas says he remembers it as if it was yesterday or something equivalent to that. And the hall was built around 500 years before LOTR, I think.

Radagast The Brown · 08-30-2002, 10:14 AM

I thought Legolas was 500. my sister told me that... so I thought he's old and probably saw Bilbo and dwarfs in Mirkwood.

afro-elf · 08-30-2002, 02:01 PM

I always felt around 600 but that is just an opinion.

Caleb · 09-01-2002, 07:51 PM

I think Legolas is 21 and the real reason he left the caves is because he was drinkin all the frickin wine and they threw him out.

08-10-2002, 10:16 AM	#1
Nariel Starfire Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: La La Land Posts: 309	The Elves... OUt of curiosity... The Elvenking in the Hobbit... was that Thranduil? If so, would not Legolas have lived in the cave as well, and if so, doesn't that conflict with his hatred of caves? __________________ It is the failed skydiver who leaves an impression upon the earth. "But what about the R.O.U.Ses?" Yours Truly, The Tisroc -You forgot to say "May he live forever" -That's because I don't want him to live forever! - The Horse and his Boy--C.S. Lewis

08-10-2002, 10:57 AM	#2
Faramir Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ithilien Posts: 353	Perhaps Legolas wasn't born yet. Then his hatred of caves is probably what made him decide to go on adventures and leave home. __________________ This is the Window of the Sunset, Henneth Annun, fairest of all the falls of Ithilien, land of many fountains."-Faramir, Chapter IV, The Two Towers ========================== FRODO LIVES!!! ========================== YODA IS DA MAN!!! ========================== I Love Jesus!

08-10-2002, 12:31 PM	#3
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Very interesting question. It says that Thranduil hall were modeled after Menegroth though less splendid. I would say that it was a dislike of natural caves as opposed to and unground city. He seemed fine in Moria ( I think), but he seemed ill at ease with the glittering caves. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

08-10-2002, 02:29 PM	#4
Nariel Starfire Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: La La Land Posts: 309	well, he was fine once there, but when they asked, he said that he didn't want to go to Moria. Legolas was nearly 3000 years old in FOTR. The hobbit was only 60 years after that. __________________ It is the failed skydiver who leaves an impression upon the earth. "But what about the R.O.U.Ses?" Yours Truly, The Tisroc -You forgot to say "May he live forever" -That's because I don't want him to live forever! - The Horse and his Boy--C.S. Lewis

08-10-2002, 06:09 PM	#6
Claenoic Queen of Prolonged, Unexplained Absences Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas. 'Nuff said. Posts: 556	But I always thought that Legolas was there when the dwarves were hauled in. Who knows though? Glorfindel lived for quite some time and still looked moderately young. __________________ Very Biased Alternate Script (but it's funny!):Click here! FREAK RAIN!!!!!!!! O.o Queen of prolonged unexplained absences and long, loooong car rides. Well, hullo everyone. As you can see, I don't hang out here muchly anymore. There's a good reason for this. Y'see, I've been hanging out at a different chatboard called Cardboardia. So far, I've been havin' a blast. Not that I don't love the TLA, but the magic of Entmoot is lost on me. So, as soon as TLA ends, so will my existance here, probably. Who knows though? I might stay. Highly unlikely however. This is a good bye in advance, then. Unless you want to join me and my group of friends at Cardboardia. Cheers!

08-11-2002, 04:28 AM	#7
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Legolas is not mentioned in the Hobbit. Elves will look "young" forever. Galadriel is well over 10,000 years old and she is still a babe. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

08-11-2002, 06:05 AM	#8
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	I don't think Legolas, or the Wood-Elves in general, hated caves. They just preferred the open air and growing things around them. Caves they used for storage and shelter, and for their protection when the outside world made it necessary. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

08-11-2002, 02:58 PM	#9
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	if Legolas were younger then 60 years old, he wasn't go to war. It's a very young age for elves. I always thought he was 500 years old in FOTR... but i don't know that. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-11-2002, 03:13 PM	#10
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	Elves were considered adult at age 50. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

08-11-2002, 03:17 PM	#11
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	and that mean they let their sons to go to a war in this age? I don't think Legolas could be such a good ranger without at least 60 years. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-11-2002, 03:25 PM	#12
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	We let are soldiers go to war at 18. When they become an adult. Also, its when their bodies mature. Their minds are quicker. Also, He is not a Ranger. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

08-12-2002, 02:55 PM	#13
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I meant archer (bow-man?) and maybe you let your soldiers to go to war at this age, but usually we let them to go to war a few years later... 20 years old? __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-14-2002, 07:49 PM	#16
The Lady of Ithilien Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Right here in between yesterday and tomorrow. Posts: 357	Legolas's age - the view from Ithlien The books aren't in front of me right now, but at some point in The Two Towers while they're in the vicinity of Fangorn, Legolas notes that he's watched many an oak grow from acorn to ruinous age. He doesn't say this has been consecutively, of course, but that's the impression I got. That gives us something to go on. An oak's life span varies according to species -- there's a 500-year-old live oak (sans a lichen beard, unfortunately) in Magnolia Springs, Alabama, for instance. But that tree needs a warmer climate than likely existed for Mirkwood. In Ithlien maybe, but not in the northern forest, which from Bilbo's description sounded like a typical northern hardwood forest in its southernmost reaches, with beech, birch, maple and a lot of oaks. Oak species more likely to be found in there where winter held sway during part of the year likely had a slightly less lengthy lifespan than a live oak: on a quick Net search, I learned that the oldest white oak east of the Mississippi River, for instance, is some 370 years old, and bur oaks live 300 to 400 years. Figuring 300 to 400 years at a crack, Legolas is telling us that's he's been around a long time. He didn't stand out in The Hobbit, but then his dad's only concessions to kingly attire were a crown of leaves or flowers, depending on the season, and a carved staff (of oak, if I remember right). The Wood Elves were apparently not big on pomp and easily recognizable symbols of rank, so to Bilbo (who had a lot of other stuff to think about at the time and certainly wasn't likely to be present at meals and elvish celebrations where rank would have been more obvious) Legolas would just have seemed to be another elf.

08-27-2002, 12:01 PM	#17
UnStashable Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 52	There is also a dialogue between Gandalf and Legolas in the Two Towers about the Golden Hall in Edoras of Rohan. Gandalf says that too the men of rohan it seems like time began when that hall was built Legolas says he remembers it as if it was yesterday or something equivalent to that. And the hall was built around 500 years before LOTR, I think. __________________ This elevator only goes to the basement, and sombody made an awful mess down there

08-30-2002, 10:14 AM	#18
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	I thought Legolas was 500. my sister told me that... so I thought he's old and probably saw Bilbo and dwarfs in Mirkwood. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-30-2002, 02:01 PM	#19
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I always felt around 600 but that is just an opinion. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 08-30-2002 at 02:03 PM.

09-01-2002, 07:51 PM	#20
Caleb Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: I'll never tell. Posts: 37	I think Legolas is 21 and the real reason he left the caves is because he was drinkin all the frickin wine and they threw him out. __________________ -Caleb

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