Gandalf about to die? - Page 3

Christiana · 07-01-2002, 12:17 AM

its ok.

Radagast The Brown · 07-01-2002, 03:50 PM

you have to read The Silmarilion.

it's all there.

SamwiseGamgeeOTS · 07-07-2002, 01:06 PM

I'm getting there. I'm just not ready yet.

***Tessar*** · 07-20-2002, 09:57 AM

You guys also forget the fact that the hobbit is a completely different writing style then LOTR is.

The Hobbit is a cute little book about a little guy running off to get some gold.

LOTR is a harrowing journey full of fear, death, and poetry. The style is more poetic and the perils are more "perilous".

Except for the fact that LOTR stemmed from TH you could almost say the TH was an alternate ME.

Radagast The Brown · 07-20-2002, 03:01 PM

So what you are saying is.... your point is that.....

what you're saying not refute to the fact that Gandalf could die.

webwizard333 · 07-22-2002, 10:07 AM

I put it in the wrong thread, thanks for pointing this out.

Radagast The Brown · 07-23-2002, 03:20 PM

okay...... but what with that and with the subject??

Thorir Orcbane · 08-15-2009, 05:32 PM

Then if Maiar could not use there power as men how come when the Balrog was attacking the door in Moria, Gandalf put a sealing spell on the door and cursed the Balrog? What does that say?

Christiana · 08-15-2009, 06:48 PM

Hmmm.... Gandalf did use spells before in both the Hobbit and FotR. Maybe a sealing spell was permitted because it didn't require him to reveal his full power? And maybe when he cursed the Balrog the power lay more in what he said than any 'spell,' akin to how "the name of Elbereth" drove off the Nazgul? Any thoughts?

Noble Elf Lord · 08-18-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightice

I'd say, that nine Nazgul would be darm much harder to kill than 900 goblins, plus their special powers and aura of fear.

The point is not whether you can kill them, but whether you can get out of the situation alive. Where do you think you have better chances - in the middle of a 900-headed Orc thrall, or in front of nine fire-, water- and Elf-fearing Nazgûl?

(And as a side note, truly has the Númenorian blood grown thin if the Men of Minas Anor fear those wretched shadows.)

Tinman · 08-21-2009, 03:16 PM

I first off am one to believe that gandalf was powerful, but not super man. He was just as easily killed by a stray arrow as any random soldier.

That being said, I think Gandalf maybe could have escaped the burning tree's that night, but I dont think that was his goal. Gandalf had a mission that was bigger than himself, and his job was to get those dwarves across middle earth, and to set them up with the means to defeat a potentially undefeatable ally to sauron. Sure, maybe gandalf could make it out alive, but what about the dwarves? What about the poor bumbling burglar he hired? If they failed their missing, the siege of dol goldur would have been impossible, as no doubt, smaug would have recruited to Sauron's agenda.

Gandalf was planning to go off like a bomb, take out as many of the goblins and wargs in the area that he could, so that the dwarves mission might be a success. Their fate determined the fate of the White Council's next move.

***Valandil*** · 12-27-2010, 12:54 PM

Besides - at the time Bilbo wrote down this adventure, he didn't know that Gandalf was a Maia. Or maybe even what a Maia was!

Pitchike12 · 01-09-2011, 05:46 PM

I don't think Gandalf died because of that. Actually Gandalf jumped because he is I think going to ride a dragon? That what I just remembered.

Huorn · 01-16-2011, 10:40 PM

I've read the Hobbit. I didn't get the impression that Gandalf died at all. This is news to me.

***Varnafindë*** · 01-17-2011, 05:32 PM

If you read the first post of this thread, you'll see that we're just discussing what might have happened.
Gandalf was rescued, so he didn't have to risk dying there and then after all.
You're quite right that he didn't die in The Hobbit.

the insane one · 01-24-2011, 05:19 PM

Going back to the main point about Gandalf, it wasnt until Bilbo saw him blowing smoke rings in Beorns house he saw how great he was, So he may have underestimated him.
But Gandalf still takes the form of 'an old man' and despite "magic" powers he could still be physically broken (just like his arm) or killed biophysically

Mark of Cenla · 02-04-2011, 12:04 PM

In my humble opinion, he would have died. I have no deep analysis, but based on reading The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings many times, I believe they could have killed him.

Torongil · 03-27-2011, 05:05 PM

Yea, he probably would have blasted a lot of the goblins and wargs with all of the strength he had in a lightning bolt or something but in the end I believe he would have been cut into threads...

Thorir Orcbane · 03-29-2011, 07:34 PM

Honestly, and with all due respect to the numerous opinions of all here, I don't think the great Gandalf would have been defeated just yet. I realise that he was not the White yet, and may have not been able to access that amount of power, but remember he was only second to Saruman the White, and as an Istari and Maia, he was still extremely powerful and not a force to be reckoned with. Not saying he would escape from a few hundred Orcs and Wargs unscathed, but he would probably escape nonetheless.

barrelrider110 · 03-30-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinman

I first off am one to believe that gandalf was powerful, but not super man. He was just as easily killed by a stray arrow as any random soldier.

That being said, I think Gandalf maybe could have escaped the burning tree's that night, but I dont think that was his goal. Gandalf had a mission that was bigger than himself, and his job was to get those dwarves across middle earth, and to set them up with the means to defeat a potentially undefeatable ally to sauron. Sure, maybe gandalf could make it out alive, but what about the dwarves? What about the poor bumbling burglar he hired? If they failed their missing, the siege of dol goldur would have been impossible, as no doubt, smaug would have recruited to Sauron's agenda.

Gandalf was planning to go off like a bomb, take out as many of the goblins and wargs in the area that he could, so that the dwarves mission might be a success. Their fate determined the fate of the White Council's next move.

I agree with Tinman. As a Maia, Gandalf's spirit may have been immortal but his body was not. They were facing unbeatable odds, and to stay in the trees would have meant certain death for all. His plan was a desperate attempt to use his subtle arts to save the Dwarves and Bilbo. To do that he would have needed to occupy all the Goblins and Wargs and until he was sure his charges were out of harm's way. A fighting retreat would have been out of the question.

07-01-2002, 12:17 AM	#41
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	its ok. __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

07-01-2002, 03:50 PM	#42
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	you have to read The Silmarilion. it's all there. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

07-07-2002, 01:06 PM	#43
SamwiseGamgeeOTS Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A quaint little hole which last time I checked was somewhere near Ohio, Middle-Earth. Posts: 165	I'm getting there. I'm just not ready yet. __________________ "...Eragon recoiled in shock. Standing in front of him, licking off the membrane that encased it, was a dragon."

07-20-2002, 03:01 PM	#45
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	So what you are saying is.... your point is that..... what you're saying not refute to the fact that Gandalf could die. __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

07-22-2002, 10:07 AM	#46
webwizard333 Elf Lord Join Date: May 2001 Location: myob Posts: 587	I put it in the wrong thread, thanks for pointing this out. __________________ Boo! Last edited by webwizard333 : 07-23-2002 at 05:55 PM.

07-20-2002, 09:57 AM	#44
*Tessar* Master and Wielder of the Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: IM IN UR POSTZ, EDITIN' UR WURDZ Posts: 6,433	You guys also forget the fact that the hobbit is a completely different writing style then LOTR is. The Hobbit is a cute little book about a little guy running off to get some gold. LOTR is a harrowing journey full of fear, death, and poetry. The style is more poetic and the perils are more "perilous". Except for the fact that LOTR stemmed from TH you could almost say the TH was an alternate ME.

07-23-2002, 03:20 PM	#47
Radagast The Brown Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Israel Posts: 6,975	okay...... but what with that and with the subject?? __________________ Lalala... poof! AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

08-15-2009, 05:32 PM	#48
Thorir Orcbane Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Where the shadows of the ancient world still dwell. Posts: 34	Then if Maiar could not use there power as men how come when the Balrog was attacking the door in Moria, Gandalf put a sealing spell on the door and cursed the Balrog? What does that say? __________________ " A wizard is never late , nor is He ever early , He arrives precisely when He means to." -Gandalf "Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!" - Elendil/Aragorn "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" - Bilbo "No, no, no! Who gave the short kid Desert Eagles?"

08-15-2009, 06:48 PM	#49
Christiana Elf Lord Join Date: May 2002 Location: Searching desperately for a swan boat to take to Valinor Posts: 1,231	Hmmm.... Gandalf did use spells before in both the Hobbit and FotR. Maybe a sealing spell was permitted because it didn't require him to reveal his full power? And maybe when he cursed the Balrog the power lay more in what he said than any 'spell,' akin to how "the name of Elbereth" drove off the Nazgul? Any thoughts? __________________ I take full responsibility for my actions, except for those that are somebody else's fault Having someone to blame is nearly as good as having a solution to the problem Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you habe their shoes. ~Frieda Norris

08-21-2009, 03:16 PM	#51
Tinman Enting Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 68	I first off am one to believe that gandalf was powerful, but not super man. He was just as easily killed by a stray arrow as any random soldier. That being said, I think Gandalf maybe could have escaped the burning tree's that night, but I dont think that was his goal. Gandalf had a mission that was bigger than himself, and his job was to get those dwarves across middle earth, and to set them up with the means to defeat a potentially undefeatable ally to sauron. Sure, maybe gandalf could make it out alive, but what about the dwarves? What about the poor bumbling burglar he hired? If they failed their missing, the siege of dol goldur would have been impossible, as no doubt, smaug would have recruited to Sauron's agenda. Gandalf was planning to go off like a bomb, take out as many of the goblins and wargs in the area that he could, so that the dwarves mission might be a success. Their fate determined the fate of the White Council's next move.

12-27-2010, 12:54 PM	#52
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Besides - at the time Bilbo wrote down this adventure, he didn't know that Gandalf was a Maia. Or maybe even what a Maia was! __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

01-09-2011, 05:46 PM	#53
Pitchike12 Enting Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: In the land of Mordor Posts: 56	I don't think Gandalf died because of that. Actually Gandalf jumped because he is I think going to ride a dragon? That what I just remembered. __________________ Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die, One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. -Gandalf

01-16-2011, 10:40 PM	#54
Huorn Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Fangorn's Treeherd Posts: 393	I've read the Hobbit. I didn't get the impression that Gandalf died at all. This is news to me. __________________ Silver Valley Oak As for me and my house we will serve the LORD Just call me Oakie

01-17-2011, 05:32 PM	#55
*Varnafindë* Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands) Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Imladris (and sometimes Norway) Posts: 3,304	If you read the first post of this thread, you'll see that we're just discussing what might have happened. Gandalf was rescued, so he didn't have to risk dying there and then after all. You're quite right that he didn't die in The Hobbit. __________________ Signature picture art - Bard the Bowman - by vigshane Avatar art - Footsteps of Spring (a young Luthien) - by Henning Janssen

01-24-2011, 05:19 PM	#56
the insane one Sapling Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 11	Going back to the main point about Gandalf, it wasnt until Bilbo saw him blowing smoke rings in Beorns house he saw how great he was, So he may have underestimated him. But Gandalf still takes the form of 'an old man' and despite "magic" powers he could still be physically broken (just like his arm) or killed biophysically __________________ "I liked white better," i said. "White!" he sneered "It serves as the begining. White cloth may be dyed. The white page may be overwritten; and the white light may be broken." "in which case is is no longer white" siad I. "And he that breaks something to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."

02-04-2011, 12:04 PM	#57
Mark of Cenla Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: central Louisiana Posts: 105	In my humble opinion, he would have died. I have no deep analysis, but based on reading The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings many times, I believe they could have killed him. __________________ Mark Wellman ><>

03-27-2011, 05:05 PM	#58
Torongil Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 23	Yea, he probably would have blasted a lot of the goblins and wargs with all of the strength he had in a lightning bolt or something but in the end I believe he would have been cut into threads...

03-29-2011, 07:34 PM	#59
Thorir Orcbane Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Where the shadows of the ancient world still dwell. Posts: 34	Honestly, and with all due respect to the numerous opinions of all here, I don't think the great Gandalf would have been defeated just yet. I realise that he was not the White yet, and may have not been able to access that amount of power, but remember he was only second to Saruman the White, and as an Istari and Maia, he was still extremely powerful and not a force to be reckoned with. Not saying he would escape from a few hundred Orcs and Wargs unscathed, but he would probably escape nonetheless. __________________ " A wizard is never late , nor is He ever early , He arrives precisely when He means to." -Gandalf "Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta!" - Elendil/Aragorn "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve" - Bilbo "No, no, no! Who gave the short kid Desert Eagles?"

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