Bombadil...theories? The Ring had no effect on him!

[Peter_20]

Tolkien himself has stated that Tom Bombadil is NOT Eru Ilúvatar, so that theory fails.

Tom Bombadil doesn't fit into the character of any race in Arda, and this makes him an extremely exciting character.

[Ben]

I read it some years ago. It's basically just a collection of poetry, and is on the silly side. Not a "must-have."

[Ant]

Bleh...disregard that post. Just realised someone said the same earlier.

[Ant]

Oh, and another thought I had regarding Goldberry rather than Tom is that Tom states that "It's Goldberrys washing day" and Tolkien stresses greatly the fact that it's raining outside. Now I wouldn't imagine that Goldberry was the 'under the thumb-male dominated' type. Nor would she wash clothes out in the rain. I would think that perhaps Tom is the the warm weather, or the sun. And Goldberry is the wet weather, or the rain itself. The entire chapter seems to give that feeling.

To reinforce this belief there are a number of points...

Tom seems to want to stay inside when its raining. He seems quite happy to let Goldberry do her thing, to wash the land. Its her turn and he will sit inside and chill out with the hobbits.

The rain has no effect on him. He comes inside from the rain and is completely dry.

And my favorite is the fact that the two seem to dance around, he jolly and capering, her sad and beautiful, yet they seem to create one dance and never get in each others way.

Symbolic of course, but I like to think of it that way.

[adanedhel]

Whatever he is....I would say he is no Elf, Dwarf or even Ent. Gandalf said that Treebeard was the "eldest of all living creatures". So if Tom was "First" it would seem to indicate that he is more than a "living creature", a spirit like the Valar, Maiar or something similar.

If I HAD to pick..I would say Vala... he and Goldberry remind me of lesser forms of Yavanna and Ulmo (genders reversed of course).

As for him being Iluvatar.......to paraphrase Dennis Miller...I just know God wouldn't dress like that! HeHe

[Selwythe]

Bombadil really reminds me of Tulkas or Lorien, and Goldberry his spouse (what was her name again?). Don't know why. I know it's not consistent since Bombadil didn't have any great powers like Tulkas' power and speed and the Valar sit in their land watching the world like a TV show.

Nah, I think Tolkien wanted to write something about him but got sick of it. Always happens to me when I write.

[Ñólendil]

I made a post just now, but I deleted it as I think (forgive me if this sounds terribly snobbish) it would hurt the poll.

Tulkas' spouse was Nessa, and Irmo's (or Lorien's) was Este.

[Fat middle]

Originally posted by adanedhel
Whatever he is....I would say he is no Elf, Dwarf or even Ent. Gandalf said that Treebeard was the "eldest of all living creatures". So if Tom was "First" it would seem to indicate that he is more than a "living creature", a spirit like the Valar, Maiar or something similar.

Okey, forget what i said in the other posts. This reasoning has made me think other way. But no, adanedhel, i can't agree with you: if Tom was "First" it would seem to indicate that he is LESS "than a "living creature".

Tom is dead. That's why he can command the wight, that's why the Ring has no effect on him...

But not all the dead are FIRST (though most of them are prior to the living creature). Only one can be the FIRST, and that is Finwe, who has returned to ME from the Halls of Mandos.

But why don't he help Frodo: he had reasons to hate Melkor and his followers. Because he wants to await his hour, he wants to await till Melkor come gain to defeat him personally. All is in the second prophecy of Mandos. Some versions said that Finwe would defeat Melkor in the last battle, the Dagorlad.

okey, I don't really believe it But i wanted so see if something new could be said about this topic (and also resolve the question of Turin/Finwe problem in the Dagorlad )

[webwizard333]

I read an interesting theory once that Bombadil was Tolkien in Middle Earth (that would explain the whole first thing).

[Ñólendil]

I agree that Tom cannot be a living thing (Tom eldest in Time and witnessed first acorn + Treebeard oldest living thing = Tom is not a living thing), but I cannot agree that he is dead (i.e., a wraith). 'Spirit' I think would be nearer.

Finwë was not the first Elf to die, he was the first Elf to be slain in Aman. The first to die in Aman was MÃ*riel (his first wife) and the first Elf to die is not recorded. What is this about 'Turin/Finwe in the Dagorlad'? Have I missed something? I know about the legend of Turin in the Last Battle (which was abandoned), but I haven't heard about Finwë -- and Dagorlad='Battleplain', it can be found on the LOTR map NW of Mordor.

[adanedhel]

A major problem with Tom being a wraith (dead) is that I don't see how you can die without being alive in the first place.

Also being a wraith would not explain why the One Ring had no effect on him....the less powerful nine rings of mortal men seem to have quite an effect on the Nazgul and they are wraiths....

[Fat middle]

Inoldonil : sorry, i meant the Dagorath (the final battle, as you guessed), but i was wrong about the two versions: in one appeared Turin, in the other Fionwe (not Finwe). I'm not sure, but i think that this Fionwe was "the son of Manwe" wich later become Eonwe, the herald of Manwe. Anyway, this project seems to be abandoned by JRRT as you said.

[Comic Book Guy]

I personally believe he's a spirit or a Maia, then again he could be the Witch-King

[Agburanar]

Hi, I'm new here and haven't researched any subjects thoroughly but I love Tolkien, please teach me! On the subject of Bombadil the theory that he is a visitor in Middle Earth is appealing, Tolkien says that to make a fantasy world convincing there has to be links with this world. Bombadil seems to be a mysterious character who can find you but you can't find him. He knows everything but clearly is not a God. Therefore it seems that he may be a Father Christmas figure! Does anyone know why he was left out of the radio series? He may have been thought unimportant but I think he is a colourful and significant figure. Thats enough waffle from an unimportant, new person. Bye!

[Shanamir Duntak]

Welcome to the board Agburanar
And no one is unimportant here! [edit]Well, maybe Tater and Anduin...

Make yourslef at home.

[ringbearer]

One clue is Tom's magic. It revolves around singing. He said of Old Man Willow..."I know his song". I believe Iluvitar's magic had something to do with singing, as well.

[Ñólendil]

Fat Middle: I don't think 'Dagorath' is the word you're looking for either. I'm not sure what the Elvish name for the Last Battle is. Certainly Dagor=Battle.

My, my, the new members are pouring in, aren't they? This place is growing fast!

[adanedhel]

Last battle = Dagor Dagorath

[Ñólendil]

Is it really? Alright, guess I was wrong.

[Agburanar]

You mentioned singing, could this be a link with Treebeard's names? If so perhaps Tom Bombadil is a different race entirely, or an ent who has not "grown like his sheep"? If so does he know where the entwives went? Puzzling....

Another thought, where did Beren and Luthien vanish off to? The Silmarillion doesn't say after the defeat of the dwarves. Where did they go?