The Forsaken Inn

Churl · 01-21-2002, 04:51 PM

Can anyone help me out here? In Fellowship, Book I, a place called "the Forsaken Inn" is said to be a day's journey east of Bree. Aragorn and the Hobbits, of course, bypass it by journeying northeastward through the Midgewater Marshes toward Weathertop.

But back to the inn … does anyone know what led to its "forsakenness?" Did Tolkien write any back-story or notes regarding the inn in The History of Middle Earth, etc.? (Or am I just forgetting some further exposition in Rings?)

As it stands in my mind now — a cryptic, one-time reference — the Forsaken Inn is yet another of the many intriguing, unexplored mysteries in Rings: one more place I wish I could visit. (If only in story … it sounds kind of sinister, actually!)

Menelvagor · 01-21-2002, 08:59 PM

Well, it might just be that the road was so little used, that the inn fell into disrepair. That'de be an interesting thing to figure out, I never really thought about it before.

Wayfarer · 01-21-2002, 09:49 PM

I always assumed that was because:

A) It was just an inn, way out in the middle of nowhere. Most ins would have been in or near a town, and had some people around

B) It was what, a week from bree and Two weeks from rivendell?

Churl · 01-21-2002, 11:40 PM

Hmm. &nbspI could be reading more intrigue into the name than Tolkien ever intended. &nbspIt just sounded rather ominous: "the Forsaken Inn" … as if it had once been frequented, but had been since overrun by something evil. &nbspMaybe not; unless it was described in greater detail elsewhere, I guess we'll never know.

I can't find the exact mention of it in the book, but I'm pretty sure it was only something like a day's journey east of Bree along the Great Road.

Incidentally, here in the U.S., we have the modern equivalent of the Forsaken Inn: it's called Motel 6.

luinilwen · 01-22-2002, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Churl
Hmm. &nbspI could be reading more intrigue into the name than Tolkien ever intended. &nbspIt just sounded rather ominous: "the Forsaken Inn" … as if it had once been frequented, but had been since overrun by something evil.

cockroaches?

it was probably only forsaken in the "evil days". my guess is people just stopped going there as travelling became less safe and thence less common. and then the cockroaches...

bropous · 01-23-2002, 12:32 PM

I don't know whether Tolkien meant anything nefarious about the place when he called it the Forsaken Inn. I think it was because the road, as has been mentioned above, had less and less traffic on it over the years, and the Inn being kind of in the country, fell into hard times, but apparently remained open. Who knows, maybe it was an old Arthedainic or Cardolanian tavern...imagine the only real customer base was stingy Dwarves and sporadic visits by Dunedain on their way through the area.

It does seem an intriguing locale, though, and really stirs a bit of mystery as to its originas and business history...

sepulchrave · 01-24-2002, 02:28 AM

the reference to the Forsaken Inn is on pg. 200 of my edition, chapter 11 A Knife in the Dark. I think the place is closed, and has been for a while...

Churl · 01-24-2002, 04:09 AM

I appreciate your thoughts and insights, everyone.

As can be expected here at the Entmoot, my question resulted from my enjoyment of Tolkien's work. Also like many others here I love Tolkien's work as much for the mysteries left tantalizingly vague as I do for the main characters, events and settings. For me at least, this depth makes Middle-earth a much richer fictional place than any other I've visited in books.

Some novels give you the sense that the main characters move through the story on "tracks." In other words, the entire fictional reality seems to follow them around, assembling itself like a cheap sitcom soundstage just long enough for them to say their piece there and move on: they never see any place or talk about anything that doesn't have a direct bearing on the linear plot.

Professor Tolkien's work, thankfully, is nothing like that.

There are enough details, mysteries, and untaken side trips to fill ten books the size of Rings. The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle Earth, et. al. have been prepared for the general public's reading by the author's son Christopher, of course, but sometimes I find that the best "side trips" in Middle-earth are those that even the background material leaves in mystery.

All of these — the enduring enigmas, as well as the sheer volume of poems, ancient tales, and background material that Tolkien wrote over the course of his life — make Middle-earth seem much more like a real place than many other authors' "cardboard" fictional worlds. …Just one of the many reasons we're still talking about Tolkien's work after all these decades, no?

In any case, thank you again for the continued responses to this thread.

Comic Book Guy · 01-25-2002, 07:47 PM

Instead of taking things literally, It could have been just a name for an Inn, The Prancing Pony doesn't have Ponys that prance does it?

Laurelyn · 01-25-2002, 08:05 PM

Yes, but who would go to an Inn with a gloomy name? That couldn'tve been good for business.

ragamuffin92 · 01-25-2002, 08:11 PM

When you've been travelling through the wilderness for days, weeks or months, I don't think you'd reject a tavern because of it's name--unless it was "The Condemned-by-the-Board-of-Health Inn."

Ñólendil · 01-25-2002, 08:30 PM

But what idiotic person would name their inn The Forsaken Inn? That's not very good for business.

ragamuffin92 · 01-25-2002, 08:41 PM

Well, I guess people who would be fussy about the name of an Inn don't generally wander around the wilderness, so whoever named the place probably didn't worry about that. Personally, I think it's a great name for a place, at least for the times it was placed in. Don't forget that they were dealing with a rugged clientele.
I knew a bar that advertised "stale beer and lousy food," but people realized it was a joke, so it didn't hurt their business. Probably drew some curious new customers, too.
LOL--They couldn't call the Forsaken Inn "Joe's Neighborhood Tavern." Everyone would have thought the owner was a looney.

Thrain of the Shire · 01-25-2002, 09:17 PM

Forsaken -- ah the images that conjures up. I find it interesting that "The Forsaken Inn" is in the book wheree we get the first hints of Aragorn's feelings for Arwen, of the tension between elves and dwarves, and a huge feeling of past golden times slipping away ineveitably into the mists of the next age...

Forsaken could be a name that "felt" right at that time, for have they not just forsaken safety and the Shire?

Or maybe the owner had just been dumped by a date and was feeling sorry for self when naming the pub.....

And as for Prancing Ponies -- well, I have seen Lipizanners....

bropous · 01-27-2002, 12:41 PM

Some other names that would be great for business:

1. The Robbed Traveller Inn;
2. Sour Beer And Salmonella Tavern;
3. Syphillis Sally's Massage Parlor and Hostel;
4. Empty Barrel Bar & Grill;
5. The Runny Nose Malt Shoppe;
6. Nazgul Family Credit Union;
7. Sweeny Todd's Barber Shop;
8. Gollum's Day Care;
9. Tom Bombadil Financial Consultants;
10. Enron.

BTW, I wonder when was the last time a green dragon graced the Inn in the Shire... probably about the same time the ponies were prancing in Bree...

Thrain of the Shire · 01-27-2002, 07:02 PM

to continue:

- the toad in the hole (literally)
- elronds instant service centre (think about it)
- Gimli's barbers
- Saruman's coffee mornings
- Sauron's special garden centre
- Saruman's jewellry store -- rings resized while u wait!

Ñólendil · 01-27-2002, 07:06 PM

ragamuffin, I get the idea that the Inn wasn't in the middle of Nowhere before it was 'Forsaken'. I don't think it was an Inn that was in business, I think it was an Inn that had been forsaken.

ragamuffin92 · 01-27-2002, 07:14 PM

Could be, Inoldonil. To tell the truth, it's such a minor detail in the story that I had forotten about it until I saw the question here. But NOW, I'm going to have to try to find the place where it's mentioned in the FOtR, just to satisfy my curiousity. (grumble, grumble, grumble...)

Ñólendil · 01-27-2002, 07:23 PM

I think it's in the chapter called Strider in Book II. Or else it's in Knife in the Dark.

ragamuffin92 · 01-27-2002, 07:52 PM

It's in "A Knife in the Dark", page 200 in the Houghton-Mifflin revised edition, 1965. The name is written exactly as follows: "the Forsaken Inn,"italicized and capitallized just like that--indicating that it was the actual name of the place, not just a description or a nickname. Since Tolkien said nothing to indicate that it was deserted (and there are no towns anywhere near it on the map), to me that says it was probably still open for business, as a sort of rest stop for travellers on their way to someplace else. No way to tell for sure, tho, and since it has no more to do with the story than the cats of Queen Beruthiel did, I realize why I had forgotten about it.

01-21-2002, 04:51 PM	#1
Churl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 128	The Forsaken Inn Can anyone help me out here? In Fellowship, Book I, a place called "the Forsaken Inn" is said to be a day's journey east of Bree. Aragorn and the Hobbits, of course, bypass it by journeying northeastward through the Midgewater Marshes toward Weathertop. But back to the inn … does anyone know what led to its "forsakenness?" Did Tolkien write any back-story or notes regarding the inn in The History of Middle Earth, etc.? (Or am I just forgetting some further exposition in Rings?) As it stands in my mind now — a cryptic, one-time reference — the Forsaken Inn is yet another of the many intriguing, unexplored mysteries in Rings: one more place I wish I could visit. (If only in story … it sounds kind of sinister, actually!) Last edited by Churl : 01-21-2002 at 04:53 PM.

01-21-2002, 09:49 PM	#3
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	I always assumed that was because: A) It was just an inn, way out in the middle of nowhere. Most ins would have been in or near a town, and had some people around B) It was what, a week from bree and Two weeks from rivendell? __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-21-2002, 11:40 PM	#4
Churl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 128	Hmm. &nbspI could be reading more intrigue into the name than Tolkien ever intended. &nbspIt just sounded rather ominous: "the Forsaken Inn" … as if it had once been frequented, but had been since overrun by something evil. &nbspMaybe not; unless it was described in greater detail elsewhere, I guess we'll never know. I can't find the exact mention of it in the book, but I'm pretty sure it was only something like a day's journey east of Bree along the Great Road. Incidentally, here in the U.S., we have the modern equivalent of the Forsaken Inn: it's called Motel 6. Last edited by Churl : 01-21-2002 at 11:45 PM.

01-23-2002, 12:32 PM	#6
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	I don't know whether Tolkien meant anything nefarious about the place when he called it the Forsaken Inn. I think it was because the road, as has been mentioned above, had less and less traffic on it over the years, and the Inn being kind of in the country, fell into hard times, but apparently remained open. Who knows, maybe it was an old Arthedainic or Cardolanian tavern...imagine the only real customer base was stingy Dwarves and sporadic visits by Dunedain on their way through the area. It does seem an intriguing locale, though, and really stirs a bit of mystery as to its originas and business history... __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-25-2002, 08:05 PM	#10
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	Yes, but who would go to an Inn with a gloomy name? That couldn'tve been good for business. __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

01-21-2002, 08:59 PM	#2
Menelvagor Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: lurking on the edge of conversations Posts: 924	Well, it might just be that the road was so little used, that the inn fell into disrepair. That'de be an interesting thing to figure out, I never really thought about it before.

01-24-2002, 02:28 AM	#7
sepulchrave Enting Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: vancouver island, BC, Canada Posts: 58	the reference to the Forsaken Inn is on pg. 200 of my edition, chapter 11 A Knife in the Dark. I think the place is closed, and has been for a while...

01-24-2002, 04:09 AM	#8
Churl Elven Warrior Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 128	I appreciate your thoughts and insights, everyone. As can be expected here at the Entmoot, my question resulted from my enjoyment of Tolkien's work. Also like many others here I love Tolkien's work as much for the mysteries left tantalizingly vague as I do for the main characters, events and settings. For me at least, this depth makes Middle-earth a much richer fictional place than any other I've visited in books. Some novels give you the sense that the main characters move through the story on "tracks." In other words, the entire fictional reality seems to follow them around, assembling itself like a cheap sitcom soundstage just long enough for them to say their piece there and move on: they never see any place or talk about anything that doesn't have a direct bearing on the linear plot. Professor Tolkien's work, thankfully, is nothing like that. There are enough details, mysteries, and untaken side trips to fill ten books the size of Rings. The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle Earth, et. al. have been prepared for the general public's reading by the author's son Christopher, of course, but sometimes I find that the best "side trips" in Middle-earth are those that even the background material leaves in mystery. All of these — the enduring enigmas, as well as the sheer volume of poems, ancient tales, and background material that Tolkien wrote over the course of his life — make Middle-earth seem much more like a real place than many other authors' "cardboard" fictional worlds. …Just one of the many reasons we're still talking about Tolkien's work after all these decades, no? In any case, thank you again for the continued responses to this thread.

01-25-2002, 07:47 PM	#9
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Instead of taking things literally, It could have been just a name for an Inn, The Prancing Pony doesn't have Ponys that prance does it?

01-25-2002, 08:11 PM	#11
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	When you've been travelling through the wilderness for days, weeks or months, I don't think you'd reject a tavern because of it's name--unless it was "The Condemned-by-the-Board-of-Health Inn." Last edited by ragamuffin92 : 01-25-2002 at 08:12 PM.

01-25-2002, 08:30 PM	#12
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	But what idiotic person would name their inn The Forsaken Inn? That's not very good for business. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-25-2002, 08:41 PM	#13
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Well, I guess people who would be fussy about the name of an Inn don't generally wander around the wilderness, so whoever named the place probably didn't worry about that. Personally, I think it's a great name for a place, at least for the times it was placed in. Don't forget that they were dealing with a rugged clientele. I knew a bar that advertised "stale beer and lousy food," but people realized it was a joke, so it didn't hurt their business. Probably drew some curious new customers, too. LOL--They couldn't call the Forsaken Inn "Joe's Neighborhood Tavern." Everyone would have thought the owner was a looney. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

01-25-2002, 09:17 PM	#14
Thrain of the Shire Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Oxford -- (one) home of the man himself Posts: 28	Let's find some romanticism folks... Forsaken -- ah the images that conjures up. I find it interesting that "The Forsaken Inn" is in the book wheree we get the first hints of Aragorn's feelings for Arwen, of the tension between elves and dwarves, and a huge feeling of past golden times slipping away ineveitably into the mists of the next age... Forsaken could be a name that "felt" right at that time, for have they not just forsaken safety and the Shire? Or maybe the owner had just been dumped by a date and was feeling sorry for self when naming the pub..... And as for Prancing Ponies -- well, I have seen Lipizanners....

01-27-2002, 12:41 PM	#15
bropous EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 1,176	Some other names that would be great for business: 1. The Robbed Traveller Inn; 2. Sour Beer And Salmonella Tavern; 3. Syphillis Sally's Massage Parlor and Hostel; 4. Empty Barrel Bar & Grill; 5. The Runny Nose Malt Shoppe; 6. Nazgul Family Credit Union; 7. Sweeny Todd's Barber Shop; 8. Gollum's Day Care; 9. Tom Bombadil Financial Consultants; 10. Enron. BTW, I wonder when was the last time a green dragon graced the Inn in the Shire... probably about the same time the ponies were prancing in Bree... __________________ "...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160.

01-27-2002, 07:02 PM	#16
Thrain of the Shire Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Oxford -- (one) home of the man himself Posts: 28	Like the Enron one... to continue: - the toad in the hole (literally) - elronds instant service centre (think about it) - Gimli's barbers - Saruman's coffee mornings - Sauron's special garden centre - Saruman's jewellry store -- rings resized while u wait!

01-27-2002, 07:06 PM	#17
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	ragamuffin, I get the idea that the Inn wasn't in the middle of Nowhere before it was 'Forsaken'. I don't think it was an Inn that was in business, I think it was an Inn that had been forsaken. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-27-2002, 07:14 PM	#18
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	Could be, Inoldonil. To tell the truth, it's such a minor detail in the story that I had forotten about it until I saw the question here. But NOW, I'm going to have to try to find the place where it's mentioned in the FOtR, just to satisfy my curiousity. (grumble, grumble, grumble...) __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

01-27-2002, 07:23 PM	#19
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I think it's in the chapter called Strider in Book II. Or else it's in Knife in the Dark. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

01-27-2002, 07:52 PM	#20
ragamuffin92 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 309	It's in "A Knife in the Dark", page 200 in the Houghton-Mifflin revised edition, 1965. The name is written exactly as follows: "the Forsaken Inn,"italicized and capitallized just like that--indicating that it was the actual name of the place, not just a description or a nickname. Since Tolkien said nothing to indicate that it was deserted (and there are no towns anywhere near it on the map), to me that says it was probably still open for business, as a sort of rest stop for travellers on their way to someplace else. No way to tell for sure, tho, and since it has no more to do with the story than the cats of Queen Beruthiel did, I realize why I had forgotten about it. __________________ FRODO LIVES!! (sung to the tune of "My Boyfriend's Back") Now, Gandalf's back, and you're gonna be in trouble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back) Soon, Barad-dur is gonna be a pile of rubble (Hey-la, hey-la---Now, Gandalf's back)

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