troy

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Maedhros



Where did you get that? That is not in the Illiad as far as I know, not in any tragedy that I have read about.

Actually, I thought it was quite common knowledge. I don't have the Illiad available but just do a google search with :achilles lover patroclus and you can find all the info you want.

When Agamemnnon takes Breisis( sp) Achilles refuses to fight.

I personally did like that fact that the Gods where not involved. Didn't desire to watch XENA. I think that it would have supremely campy with them as to simply opposed to as you say:

The plot was really bad, the acting worse, the script was missing. The fights were cool tho.

However, I do not wish to engage in a Gods vs no Gods discussion. We just have different thoughts on it.

[Mercutio]

I'd say if they were trying to turn Troy into a history they did a pretty decent job. It couldn't be a story of mythology/legend (another approach they could've taken) without the gods playing a greater part.

[afro-elf]

Maedros,

I found quickly is that in Book XXIV of the Illiad it states something like Achilles missed the " manfulness of Patroclus"


But, here is a link you might check out

http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/randomstuff/gay.html


AND ALSO THIS

Consider this quotation from Plato's dialogue, The Symposium:

The honor [the gods] gave to Achilles is another matter. They sent him to the Isles of the Blessed because he dared to stand by his lover Patroclus and avenge him, even after he had learned that he would die if he killed Hector,...


eventhough I am quite sure that you are aware of the situation in ancient Greece I post it for those who may not

...Phaedrus, the speaker of these words, thinks that Patroclus was the lover and Achilles the beloved; he criticizes Aeschylus for reversing these roles. (Among well-to-do Greeks it was common for older men to fall in love with, and seek sexual gratification from, adolescent boys. In these relationships -- which existed side by side with conventional marriage -- the older man (the erastês, "lover") played a sort of mentor role for the younger man (the erômenos, "beloved"). The younger man was supposed to be beautiful, not too forward, won over with great difficulty; and he got from the relationship the benefit of the older man's wisdom and experience. Once the youth reached a certain age, he was no longer suitable as a beloved, and became a friend.) Is Phaedrus's reading of the Achilles/Patroclus relationship plausible? Does it make sense of the text? What light does it shed on Achilles' actions after he learns of Patroclus's death?...


FINALLY HERE IS THE GOOGLE SEARCH LINK


http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...over+Patroclus

[Maedhros]

I personally did like that fact that the Gods where not involved. Didn't desire to watch XENA. I think that it would have supremely campy with them as to simply opposed to as you say:

It would have required a great deal of thinking to have inserted the Gods in there. Actually, because Thetis was there, it had one god in there.

Thanks for the links, that was my impression about that they could be gay lovers. But in fairness to Achilles, I would have to say that when Agamemnon takes Briseis away, Achilles does in fact thinks of attacking him.
From Book I: Illiad

And Agamemnon answered, "Fly if you will, I shall make you no
prayers to stay you. I have others here who will do me honour,
and above all Jove, the lord of counsel. There is no king here so
hateful to me as you are, for you are ever quarrelsome and ill-
affected. What though you be brave? Was it not heaven that made
you so? Go home, then, with your ships and comrades to lord it
over the Myrmidons. I care neither for you nor for your anger;
and thus will I do: since Phoebus Apollo is taking Chryseis from
me, I shall send her with my ship and my followers, but I shall
come to your tent and take your own prize Briseis, that you may
learn how much stronger I am than you are, and that another may
fear to set himself up as equal or comparable with me."

The son of Peleus was furious, and his heart within his shaggy
breast was divided whether to draw his sword, push the others
aside, and kill the son of Atreus, or to restrain himself and
check his anger. While he was thus in two minds, and was drawing
his mighty sword from its scabbard, Minerva came down from heaven
(for Juno had sent her in the love she bore to them both), and
seized the son of Peleus by his yellow hair, visible to him
alone, for of the others no man could see her. Achilles turned in
amaze, and by the fire that flashed from her eyes at once knew
that she was Minerva. "Why are you here," said he, "daughter of
aegis-bearing Jove? To see the pride of Agamemnon, son of Atreus?
Let me tell you--and it shall surely be--he shall pay for this
insolence with his life."

And Minerva said, "I come from heaven, if you will hear me, to
bid you stay your anger. Juno has sent me, who cares for both of
you alike. Cease, then, this brawling, and do not draw your
sword; rail at him if you will, and your railing will not be
vain, for I tell you--and it shall surely be--that you shall
hereafter receive gifts three times as splendid by reason of this
present insult. Hold, therefore, and obey."

The part that you quote in the last part of your post reminds me of the ancient tradition of Sparta, when older men warriors took younger men as their disciples and it is believed that they became even more attached to them that to their own wives, and also at that time, there was no Chirstianity and homosexuality was not the thing that it is today.

[Sono]

Great movie! The fight between Hector and Achillevs...good stuff.

I think Brad Pitt did a good job with Achillevs, just as arrogant as he should be. I think Eric Bana did a good job with Hector, too.
Of course, I only see the german version. ^^

I like Orlando Bloom, but this role was not so good. I think he ist more the Legolas
*smile*

[hectorberlioz]

Originally posted by Sono

I think Brad Pitt did a good job with Achillevs, just as arrogant as he should be. I think Eric Bana did a good job with Hector, too.

Well, there's no way that they're going to present me accurately 100%...but, quite nice to hear they tried

[Garbo]

Thought this was pretty funny

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-05-24

[afro-elf]

Agreed

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i loved troy absolutely!!
peter o'toole's acting was fabulous, as ever,
sean bean, nice eye-candy
brad pitt <Drools> orlando not bad

was this film made just with stunners taking roles?

[Manveru]

this movie was soo good. definately one of my favourite movies. i havent read the illyiad (sp?) yet so i cant compare it but except for a few little things it was awesome

[Elanor]

I just saw this on TV -- I wouldn't see the unedited version.

I thought it was quite good in most parts. I thought it was interesting to see a "version" of the Illiad without involving the gods as characters. It was also an interesting idea that Achilles' main motivation in fighting the war seemed to be to have his name immortalized. It's been a while since I read the Illiad, but I don't remember Briseis being such a big character, and I remember Odysseus being a lot bigger. Didn't he actually sneak into Troy at one point? Odysseus was always my favorite, so I was glad he was played by Sean Bean even if he didn't have a bigger part, and Athena (my second favorite character) was completely cut. I also missed Cassandra and the other brothers of Hector. Too bad there's no way they could do a "version" of the Odyssey with Sean Bean following this movie, since it would have to seriously involve the supernatural! I would really like to see a modern version of the Odyssey with all the crazy monsters and details of ancient Greece (not that I didn't like "O Brother, where art thou?" ).

I really liked Hector, but he was really the best part of it for me. I just like the nice guys who settle down and take care of their families. Achilles was pretty impressive, but not exactly likeable -- but he wasn't really likeable in the Illiad either. Agamemnon and Menelaus were seriously vilified. Paris was ok, I thought, and Priam was very good. All in all, I would watch it again.