Chapter VI & VII: Many Partings & Homeward Bound

[Finrod Felagund]

Summary : Chapter VI

So after the celebrations drew to a close Frodo went to see the king and queen and let them know he wanted to go home. (And see Bilbo on the way).

Arwen explains that with the destruction of the ring, Bilbo's age is finally catching up with him and he was too tired to come for the wedding.

Aragorn asks Frodo to wait a week for Eomer to come back for Theoden's body and then the can all travel together for a while.
Arwen then tells Frodo that he should go over the sea in her place,
"For mine is the choice of Luthien, and as she so I have chosen, both the sweet and the bitter."

Then Arwen gives him and white jewel on a necklace, to remind him of Aragorn and Arwen and give him strength in dark times.

Soon after, Eomer arrives, and he and Gimli speak about some rash words Eomer had said earlier about Galadriel. Eomer tells Gimli that Galadriel is not the fairest being he has seen, but only because he favours Arwen. And Gimli relents.
"You have chosen the evening; but my love is given to the morning. And my heart forbodes that soon it will pass away forever."

After a few days they leave to take Theoden back to Rohan. And The remaining Fellowship members all go along, as well ans Elrond and his kids, Galadriel and Celeborn and many nobles of Gondor.

When they come to the grey woods of Amon Din, Aragorn proclaims that they belong to the wild men, and them alone.

After 15 days they arrive at Edoras, and the funeral of the king is held.

"Out of doubt out of dark, to the day's rising
he rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
Hope he rekindled; and in hope ended;
over death, over dread, over doom lifted
out of loss, out of life, unto long glory."

And poor Merry just cries, because Theoden and him had become such good friends; like a father to him.

Then they have a huge feast, and Eomer announces Faramir and Eowyn's engagement, and Eowyn goes to Aragorn and asks his blessing.

and he says "I have wished thee joy since first I saw thee. It heals my heart to see thee now in bliss."

After that most of the group gets ready to go...the lords of Gondor remain behind, and so does Arwen, who first goes into the hills with Elrond, and there their last meeting and parting is sad thing indeed.

Eomer and Eowyn give Merry a special horn as a gift, and the leave. Legolas went with Gimli to the glittering caves and was left speechless, and then makes Gimli join him in a journey through Fangorn and then home.

Everyone else carries on to Isengard, where they speak with Treebeard and find that Saruman and Grima are gone.
Treebeard and Celeborn & Galadriel shae words and Merry & Pippin share one more Entdraught with Treebeard, who notes thay they have grown substantially.

Finally it comes time to say goodbye to Aragorn, who had never failed the Hobbits.
Then they meet up with Saruman and wormtongue, they exchange some words...everyone being suprisisngly nice to the beggars, and getting rudeness in return. Saruman says some worrisome and cryptic things regarding the Shire and leaves.

When they arrive near the gates of Moria, the Lorien party departs, and in the mist Galadriel holds up her ring, which flashes in the mist, as a farewell; almost a salute, to the hobbits.

Finally arrival at Rivendell, and reunion with a very sleepy Bilbo, who is still always on time for meals. It is the day before his birthday, and he is glad to see them.

After a time, they head off, Gandalf in tow.
Bilbo gives them all gifts, his books (and armour and Sting again...haha) to Frodo, the last of the Smaug gold for Sam.
"May come in useful, if you think of getting married Sam"
Some real nice pipes to Merry and Pippin too, and a bunch of advice, and a comment on their size.

To which Pippin replies, "But if you want to beat the Old Took...I don't see why we shouldn't try and beat the Bullroarer."
Bilbo, poor old Bilbo, asks about the ring, and then remembers...
"'What a pity!' said Bilbo 'I should have liked to see it again. But no, how silly of me! Thats what you went for, wasn't it: to get rid of it? But its all so confusin, forr such a lot of other things seem to have got mixed up with it: Aragorn's affairs, and the White Council, and Gondor, and the Horsemen, and Southrons, and Oliphaunts - did you really see one Sam? - and caves and towers and golden trees and goodness knows what besides.'"

Finally they depart, and Elrond says to Frodo that he may not have to come back to Rivendell to see Bilbo,
"'...unless you come very soon. For about this time of the year, when the leaves are gold before they fall, look for Bilbo in the woods of the Shire. I shall be with him'"

[Finrod Felagund]

Summary: Chapter VII

Then the Hobbits and Gandalf head off, on October 6th, Frodo's shoulder hurts, it is one year since the Weathertop stabbing.

Afeter some time they arrive at Bree, where apparently there's been trouble. They go to the Prancing Pony, where everyone is pleasantly suprised to see them.

They have a nice long chat with Barliman Butterbur, wherein they discover;

-no tobacco has been coming from the Shire
-Bill Ferny and some ruffians caused trouble, there was fighting and some people killed
-that the Hobbits and Gandalf look pretty outlandish and intimidating (a suprise to them)
-They let Butterbur know that the Rangers are back, and that there is a king
-Butterbur slowly figures out that the King is Strider, a happy revelation
-Bill the pony is alive and well, to Sam's delight

Just before they leave, Barliman warns them that all is not well in the Shire.

Nearing the Old Forest the Hobbits are a little worried, and saddened, after the word about the Shire, that Gandalf will be leaving them. He plans to have a long talk with Tom Bombadil.

And then there were four.
"'Well here we are, just the four of us that started out together,' said Merry. 'We have left all the rest behind, one after another. It seems almost like a dream that has slowly faded.'
'Not to me,' said Frodo. 'To me it feels more like falling asleep again.'"


Some Questions To Start
Significance of the jewel that Arwen gives Frodo?

Bilbo's age catching up with him, the affect of the ring on bearers after its end?

The final letting go of her love for Aragorn by Eowyn.

The bitter parting of Arwen and Elrond.

The final meeting of Treebeard and the Lord and Lady of Lorien.

The significance of Galadriel's final greeting being the ring, Nenya, held aloft?

Why do you think Bree was attacked, or targeted by ruffians, what is there that would make it an ideal target.

Bill the pony...I loves him!

What will Gandalf and Bombadil discuss?

Frodo's comment about going back to sleep rather than waking up as they head home?

[Butterbeer]

don't you get bored of the first to reply saying the standard "well done"?

well, Finrod, don't worry: i am not going to do that in this case anyway....

Instead i am going to stand here and waggle my eyebrows up and down and in rythum gandalf style in dashes and dots that say 'jolly good show!"


Bilbo's age catching up with him, the affect of the ring on bearers after its end?

yes, are we seeing a time acceleration or just the natural effects of artificially being strained and stretched and spread like thin butter over the past years?



Why do you think Bree was attacked, or targeted by ruffians, what is there that would make it an ideal target.

what?

...you mean other than the best damn beer in the North .../. nay in middle earth, even???


Not to mention the best food, fires and beds?

(i am too modest to mention the best company )

yours, one helluva' proud Landlord!

best BB

[jammi567]

Originally Posted by Finrod Felagund

The significance of Galadriel's final greeting being the ring, Nenya, hld aloft?

Maybe as a reminder that the greats are leaving forever. Minor question, but did the three ring's powers go instantly, or did they fade over time?

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by jammi567

Maybe as a reminder that the greats are leaving forever. Minor question, but did the three ring's powers go instantly, or did they fade over time?

I would think that they would lose their power very soon after the destruction of the one ring. Their effects on the world of ME would fade overtime.

Lothlorien would not disappear immediately, but the forrest would fade over timesince it did not have Galadriel's ring to help sustain it and prevent it from decaying over time.

(decaying may not be the correct word to use, but I can not think of a better word to use.)

[jammi567]

common people, this is utterly pathetic. surely there must be things to talk about.
"The final meeting of Treebeard and the Lord and Lady of Lorien."
This, i think, is showing that the nature that elves and ents love has been utterly distroyed, and it'll never come back, not even with a new king.

[Butterbeer]

don't be so hasty!

There is plenty to talk about ...

This, i think, is showing that the nature that elves and ents love has been utterly distroyed, and it'll never come back, not even with a new king.

nature always comes back - but i understand your meaning in context of Tolkien and the LOTR.

Old JRR was especially (almost suspiciously so you might think) conscious to say there was no succinct link between the rapidly changing landscapes both naturally, socially, politically and on an everday level - not to mention the VAST impact on his life and the deaths of so many he knew - the 2 wars, the second the first and luckily the ONLY so far TOTAL WAR ....

... and his experiences ...

and the messages and strands found in the books,

and i understand his thinking behind saying that, but i feel this really needs re-examining: it is both clear and deeply entrenched into the whole fabric of all his middle earth writings, esp LOTR


too much seems mindlesley taken as gospel of his actual words that these are not / were not factors.

I think Jammi JRRT is lamenting the 20th century here, and that what they held onto was in a way a grasping onto a past ... but i do not think he means that nature will not conquer or grow as ever it does .... that is a force that is invincable and especially Tolkien in all his works , to me, respects that .... it is Morgoth and Sauron that attempt to skew nature and pervert it - and even they realised perverting nature and attempting to stain it was the best they might ever achieve.

best, BB

[jammi567]

ok, let me correct it a bit. natutre that they love will never grow back to the way that it formally was, despite what anyone does to it. i think this fit in perfectly with both the books and tolkien's personal life experiences.

[Butterbeer]

well yes i agree - but in terms of Galadriel, Lorien was partly created or at least certainly maintained by the power of her ring and thus, to my mind at least, is not strictly 'natural'.

and treebeard, i suspect , is firmly rooted in past ages in this context.


But it is an interesting angle Jammi.

[jammi567]

thanks.

[Butterbeer]

The bitter parting of Arwen and Elrond.

ah! Finrod ... what a jewel of a debate you give us.

Love ... Filial and more, over ages and history past .... the Elven and humankind.


What sacrificies both of father and daughter?

Does even Mortal man know of such pain?

Truly?

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by jammi567

"The final meeting of Treebeard and the Lord and Lady of Lorien."

This is a great moment, which is all the more poignant when one re-reads the text after having read the Silmarillion.

Then Treebeard said farewell to each of them in turn, and he bowed tree times slowly and with great reverence to Celeborn and Galadriel. "It is long, long since we met by stock or by stone, A vanimar, banimalion nostari!" he said. It is sad that we should meet only thus at the ending. For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air. I do not think we shall meet again."

Worth quoting as the words are given to Galadriel in the beginning of the film.

And Celeborn said: "I do not know, Eldest." But Galadriel said: "Not in Middle Earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!"

Tasarinan was in Beleriand, and submerged at the end of the First Age. What do people think this says about the destiny of Arda?

I do find it odd that the Ents faded at the same time as the Elves departed, since they were created to protect the olvar from ravaging dwarves. This suggests that at the start of the fourth age the world changed in more ways than simply due to the departure of the Rings.

[jammi567]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Tasarinan was in Beleriand, and submerged at the end of the First Age. What do people think this says about the destiny of Arda?

isn't there that thing of Arda unmarried, where all the peoples sing a new song, and help to make the world anew.

[The Gaffer]

Yes, though it's "unmarred" and I know bugger all about it.

[The Gaffer]

Originally Posted by Finrod Felagund

Nearing the Old Forest the Hobbits are a little worried, and saddened, after the word about the Shire, that Gandalf will be leaving them. He plans to have a long talk with Tom Bombadil.

What do we think they talked about? The footie?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Finrod Felagund

Significance of the jewel that Arwen gives Frodo?

I never thought the jewel had much significance, other than a gift to remember Arwen by. She seemed to know that Frodo would depart soon and that they would not meet again. But in relation to later scenes, I wonder if it was (aside from a memory of her) also a remnant of the peacefullness and healing powers of Rivendell itself.

Bilbo's age catching up with him, the affect of the ring on bearers after its end?

The Ring kept him 'preserved' for longer than usual. It is logical that with the destruction of the Ring, time takes hold again of Bilbo.

The significance of Galadriel's final greeting being the ring, Nenya, held aloft?

It always gave me the feeling that, though the days of the Ringbearers are numbered, the power of Nenya is fading too but not gone immediately.

Why do you think Bree was attacked, or targeted by ruffians, what is there that would make it an ideal target.

If I'm not mistaken Bree is the largest settlement around and the only one region in Eriador where there is a significant population center, aside from the Shire. It's also on the Road, so it could be of relative strategical importance.

What will Gandalf and Bombadil discuss?

I remember, when once reading this passage, saying out loud: "Oh come on, you cannot NOT tell us what they're going to talk about!"

To this day I'm still rather clueless about what they would discuss, but I remain very curious.

Originally Posted by jammi567

"The final meeting of Treebeard and the Lord and Lady of Lorien." This, i think, is showing that the nature that elves and ents love has been utterly distroyed, and it'll never come back, not even with a new king.

It definitely fits with the overall theme, that although evil has been beaten, not everything can return back to its glory days. The human populations have the flexibility to rebound and regain some of the stature they lost in the centuries before. But Elves and Ents seem to have lingered too long and are no longer are part of this age and they cannot regain what they've been.

But even so they're not without hope completely as in Galadriel's words there's a promise of a new world, where things and places that are now lost can be once again.

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

I do find it odd that the Ents faded at the same time as the Elves departed, since they were created to protect the olvar from ravaging dwarves. This suggests that at the start of the fourth age the world changed in more ways than simply due to the departure of the Rings.

I quite agree. But the Dwarves also are fading in a way. They are far less in number and only have a handfull of dwelling places left. It won't be them that the Ents have to fear for their forests in the future.