The Lord of the Rings Discussion: Chapters 9 and 10

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

What I've never understood is how the elves got the Ring onto the new chain with out touching it which they wouldn't wanted to have to do because of it's powers. You didn't have posses it to want, I mean Smeagol only saw it once before killing Deagol for it's possesion.

*imagines the Elves poking the Ring onto the new chain with a stick*
Maybe they used a slightly more dignified tool like forge tongs...

[Artanis]

The hobbits looked at him, and saw with surprise that his face was drawn as if with pain, and his hands clenched the arms of his chair. The room was very quiet and still, and the light seemed to have grown dim. For a while he sat with unseeing eyes as if walking in distant memory or listening to sounds in the Night far away.

This quote is referring to Aragorn after he has spoken to the Hobbits about the Black Riders. It does suggest to me that he himself has met them before, and that the memory is not a pleasant one. I wonder when and where? And why?

[The Gaffer]

Yes, good point. Later on, he seems to know that fire will be a useful defence against them.

We're told that the Nine have not been seen over the River for many years, though. It strikes me that there are two possibilities: perhaps in his youth, particularly in Gondor, he came across them, or else on one of his long journeys which we later learn extend as far as Rhun and Harad.

Or maybe this is just some gratuitous hype from the Prof.

[Beren3000]

Maybe it was during the hunt for Gollum?

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Maybe it was during the hunt for Gollum?

Very possible. In UT it said that the first news of Gollum were learned by the servants of Dol Guldur when Aragorn hauled poor kicking and screaming creature in the Forest. And since that time the land of Thranduil was closely watched.
Probably on Aragorn's way back home the " Men in Black" stopped him and asked for a "driver 's license.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Probably on Aragorn's way back home the " Men in the Black" stopped him and asked for a "driver 's license.

[Valandil]

I'm playing 'catch-up' again and just finished Ch 9 at lunch today.

I just LOVE the lengthened version of 'Hey Diddle Diddle'!

For you Norwegians, Belgians, Spaniards, Egyptians, etc out there, there's a nursery rhyme we teach our children which approximates the next-to-last verse. JRRT greatly expanded it to what we get in Chapter 9. Here's the common version:

Hey Diddle-diddle,
The Cat and the Fiddle,
The Cow jumped over the Moon!
The Little Dog laughed,
To see such a sport,
And the Dish ran away with the Spoon!

It just occured to me at lunch that a lot of you from non-English speaking countries were probably unfamiliar with it and would likely miss the cultural reference.

[Fat middle]

Thanks Val, I didn't know it. Now I understand better:

Then in desperation he began a ridiculous song that Bilbo had been rather fond of (and indeed rather proud of, for he had made up the words himself). It was about an inn; and that is probably why it came into Frodo's mind just then. Here it is in full. Only a few words of it are now, as a rule, remembered.

and

They made Frodo have another drink, and then begin his song again, while many of them joined in; for the tune was well known, and they were quick at picking up words.

It seems the typical joke that Tolkien would have made in The Hobbit, don't you think? Perhaps the last footprint of that kind of lighthearted story before entering in the dark chapters that were to follow...

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally Posted by Artanis

This quote is referring to Aragorn after he has spoken to the Hobbits about the Black Riders. It does suggest to me that he himself has met them before, and that the memory is not a pleasant one. I wonder when and where? And why?

Likely the battle at the Sarn ford at the south of the Shire where the Nazgul scattered a group of rangers who were defending it.

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Lefty Scaevola

Likely the battle at the Sarn ford at the south of the Shire where the Nazgul scattered a group of rangers who were defending it.

Was Aragorn among them? I wonder. It just seems incredible that he, while being supported by a whole group of rangers, is overcome by the Nazgul in that incident, and yet he alone is able to scare off 5 of them on Weathertop.

[Earniel]

I don't think Aragorn was among them. I seem to remember the text mentioned that the leader of the Rangers (IOW Aragorn) wasn't among them so that they could not withstand the Nazgul. But I'm working from fuzzy memory here so I could be dead wrong.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I don't think Aragorn was among them. I seem to remember the text mentioned that the leader of the Rangers (IOW Aragorn) wasn't among them so that they could not withstand the Nazgul. But I'm working from fuzzy memory here so I could be dead wrong.

No. you are right.
But this was a task beoynd the power of the Dunedain; and maybe it would still have proved so, even if their captain, Aragorn, had been with them. But he was away to the north...UT.
As I said, the meeting, probably, happened after his deliverance of Gollum to the realms of Thranduil, because, as it said, the borders of the Forest had been constantly watched by Nazguls.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Hmmm, Then perhaps he encountered them along the Geenway where (From UT-The Hunt for the Ring) the Nazgul set up a check point to intercept traverlers on the road near which Angmar set up his 'camp' temporarily. Also after the ford battle, some of the Nazgul pursued the rangers and Aragaorn may have come into that from the other direction some time after the battle.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Artanis

This quote is referring to Aragorn after he has spoken to the Hobbits about the Black Riders. It does suggest to me that he himself has met them before, and that the memory is not a pleasant one. I wonder when and where? And why?

Rather than the Sarn Ford episode (as was further discussed a bit) it's possible that Aragorn observed the Nazgul and saw evidence of their hands at work while sneaking around Mordor in his earlier travels. Especially if he had wanted to check out the old Isildur family estate - Minas Morgul.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Fat middle

Thanks Val, I didn't know it. Now I understand better:
and

It seems the typical joke that Tolkien would have made in The Hobbit, don't you think? Perhaps the last footprint of that kind of lighthearted story before entering in the dark chapters that were to follow...

Yes, it seems that this part of the story still has a Hobbit-esque feel to it. (Which it swiftly loses. )

*is confused* Those Nazgul, they sure are hard to keep track of! I think they arrived from multiple directions when they gathered at Bree.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Fat middle

Thanks Val, I didn't know it. Now I understand better:

i didn't even think about those of you from other language basis that might not know 'hey diddle diddle', sorry FM, and anyone else!!

this bit does, however, show jrrt's humour again, we see it many times in hobbit, lotr, but not so much in sil,

i never thought of bree as being a dark foreboding place, more that it was dark in PJ's adaptation simply because of the time of day...
don't know what you lot think about this tho...?

[The Wizard from Milan]

could it make Frodo phisically fall from the table...?
I don't think so; the ring just took advantage of that particular situation. BUT had Frodo not fallen, the ring would have taken advantage of another situation on that same night because the ring was set on slipping on Frodo's finger on that night.
Frodo and the hobbitts are still quite careless at this point and the ring has an easy job to have it its way

[jammi567]

On the subject of Aragon meeting the black riders, it says in one of the HoME books (either 6 or 7) that it was something left over from when he was a hobbit and had his feet burnt or something.