Why Books are Better than Drugs

[HOBBIT]

Wayfarer, huh? Who said anything about anyone being wrong. No religons are 'wrong'
Sakata, yup you are pissing me off too. I was just trying to politely get you to shut up No hard feelings though.

[markedel]

Any and all religions by definition claim they're right. So what?

[FrodoFriend]

Maybe they're all right. Wouldn't that be something?

[HOBBIT]

Actually, that would be literally impossible. Now what would REALLY be something would be if they were all wrong! Ha

[jerseydevil]

Well I'm atheist too and I went to Catholic School and to church.

I lost a really good friend when she became Pentecostal . Also - she had invited me to an Easter show - afterward I had found out I was invited so they could try converting me. Now THAT pisses me off. She stopped talking to me and said she didn't want anything to do with me anymore because she didn't like my beliefs - that's a real Christian thing to do.

I never try converting people to not believe - I can care less. Believe what you want - it doesn't affect my life - but to me it's no more believable than the Wizard of Oz.

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by HOBBIT
Actually, that would be literally impossible.

It could happen! Maybe when we die we all get to go to our own, personal Heaven! Woohoo, Valinor, here I come! Frodo! You're here? Why yes, I would like to go to Manwe's for a nice mug of butterbeer! Heh heh heh . . .

I agree that 'converting' is both an annoying word and an annoying concept. People have tried to convert me, and it's just uncomfortable. Even if you wanted to, how could you make yourself believe something?

I don't rule Christianity out, but it doesn't seem very likely. It doesn't really fit with Nature very well, which doesn't make sense.

Actually, the most convincing metaphysical ideas I've found are in Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials. There's a thread on them in the scifi/fantasy forum.

The cycle thing is found so often in religion because cycles are found constantly in Nature. The sun, the seasons, life, everything goes through cycles. Hence, it makes sense that people would be reincarnated and things like that.

[HOBBIT]

No, that WOULD be impossible. Look, either Christ existed or he didn't. Those are two different beliefs in two different religions. They cannot be both right. Now lets NOT DISCUSS THIS. Should I close this thread? I could you know, it has gone way off topic onto a shaky topic.

[FrodoFriend]

Ummm . . . books are better than drugs because, because . . . they stimulate cool discussions like this! Ha! That's on topic! *pats herself on the back*

Oh yeah? Maybe there are multiple universes, one for each religion to be true. Then everyone's right. Disprove it, come on.

[jerseydevil]

HOBBIT is seriously considering closing this topic since it's gone so off.

Has anyone read Farenheit 451?

[FrodoFriend]

Yes! I love it, except I always get really mad when they burn the books. There could be copies of LotR in there!

[HOBBIT]

Hey, we are talking about books now! If anyone starts talking about religion again they shall have 1000s of teddy bears flung at them. Moving this to a book section.

[Wayfarer]

Books are better than drugs because you really can quit any time that you want to... wait a minute!

Now then...

By defenition, Truth is The Way Things Are. So, by definition, two contradictory things cannot both be true.

Example.
This Text is Read
This Text is Blue

Now... both statements above are in the same color... that color cannot be both red and blue. The text is read, but despite the fact that, say, someone with strange colour settings might see it differently, the text is formatted to be red. It will remain red unless someone changes it.

Now... if you say 'there are an infinite number of universes, each with one belief being correct' and I say 'there is only one universe' then, by definition, we cannot both be correct. For, the existance of a univers in which I am correct automatically negates the possibility of any other universes existing. And if other universes DO exist, then it is impossible for any universe to exist that is single, and alone.

Now... apply that to a Godwho says 'I am the way, the truth, and the life'. If he is only one of many ways to heaven makes him a liar. Which negates the possibility of him being truth. et cetera. However, if he is speaking truthfully, and there are insufficient grounds for doubting him, then there cannot be other 'Gods', other Truths, or other ways to heaven. So I hope you understand my not accepting that explaination.

Now... where did I lose you?

[jerseydevil]

I'd probably be the Fellowship of the Ring though. I'd have no problem memorizeing that and reciting it back to people. Especially the Flight to the Ford scene as it was supposed to be. Not like the movies.

[FrodoFriend]

Wayfarer, you still haven't proved to me that there aren't infinite universes that each have their own true God and religion. Just because you say there's only one universe doesn't make it true. Hence, your logic is illogical. No contradiction exists.


I love quoting the book in ordinary conversations! Especially Gollum's lines, heh heh heh. I'm working on memorizing 'Riddles in the Dark' from The Hobbit so that I an quote it at all. Plus all the poems and songs. For when I go camping, you know.

[ragamuffin92]

Farenhet 451--now, THERE'S a HOT Topic!!

[Arathorn]

Books are better than drugs because they can teach you about drugs while drugs cannot teach you about books (in an ambiquous way I guess this makes the post "on topic")

Regarding the possibility of multiple universes and/or gods:

Is there one universe?
If you define it as the collection of everything that exists, then there ought to be one by definition. Otherwise it wouldn't be called the universe. It would be a multiverse.

Is there a God or many gods, or none?

Arguments can be presented for each case. Each party can tell the other that "you don't get it".
Yet, none of these arguments can be proven nor disproven for the benefit of all parties (please see Balrog wing debates).

That's where religion comes in. It is a cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. To each his own, then.

What is my religion? I am a Catholic and have been taught that there is just one God.
I choose to believe it because:
a. if I believe in Him and He exists, I have a chance of being saved.
b. if I believe in Him and He doesn't, I am just wrong.
c. if I don't believe in Him and He exists, I be sorry.
d. if I don't believe in Him and He doesn't, I am just correct.

Frankly speaking, I'd rather be just wrong than sorry.

And yes, Frodo Lives! But which Frodo are we talking about? A local columnist in my country together with her husband gave their son the nick Frodo when he was born.

[Laurelyn]

Books are better than drugs becuase the only permanent harm they do you is fail you in Algebra b/c you were reading rather than paying attention.
Oh, and HOBBIT:
You could close this thread if you wanted, b/c you have the power to do so. But have you ever been talking about something, and then have your converstaion change to a different topic? That's what happened here.

Arguments can be presented for each case. Each party can tell the other that "you don't get it".
Yet, none of these arguments can be proven nor disproven for the benefit of all parties (please see Balrog wing debates).

Well said, Arathorn. And good example in the balrog wing issues, too.
I believe that there are multiple universes, and multiple worlds, and whatnot. If the result of my believing this is burning in Hell for eternity, I'll do it. Numela menialete rya iole, Ceari menialete rya beleoral. Water turns to ice, Fire turns to ash . . .
I also believe that the Christian's and Catholic's God probably exists out there too. Anything could be possible, really.

[Laurelyn]

Books are also better than drugs b/c they inspire crummy poetry that has to do w/ both of these topics:

Life is everything to one who lives
And to one who’s dead, it is still everything that once was true
Everything that they were when they were living.
They say that there is a Heaven, and a Hell
And the sinners burn, while the good do not.
But what defines the line between good and sin?
Everyone does something bad in their life
Does that mean that their "Heaven" is empty?
Or are we just gone when we’re dead-
Blown out like a candle
That flame gone forever?
What right has Death to take away Life, when it is so beautiful?

[Wayfarer]

Pascal's Wager, eh Arathorn?
I suppose I'm firmly convinced that 'the proof is in the pudding'.

Actually, FrodoFriend... My logic is correct. If my religion says 'this is the only universe' then there cannot be multiple universes in which each religion is true. Because that would make my religion untrue. Et Cetera. Perfectly logical.

Speaking of logic... As you pointed out, anything that arises from an illogical cause cannot be logical or trustworthy in itself. So if there isn't a logical God (or some similar logical entity) to create the world, then you and everything you think has arisen from an illogical cause. Thus, none of it is rational or worth considering, and any arguments that there is no logical creative force are defeated by their own conclusion that that we are the result of an irrational cause. ]: )

[mirrille]

Yay!
People are talking about books.

Rather than the multiple universes thing, i like the multiple gods idea. Best described in Terry Pratchett's "Small Gods" (see thread in scifi forum for other stuff by him). Read it! It's so funny. And his way of organizing the religions in his world made more sense to me than anything I've ever seen in a "serious" work. That in itself is very ironic.

Burning books is bad. That's equivalent to erasing knowledge or covering up history.

Books are better than drugs becuase the only permanent harm they do you is fail you in Algebra b/c you were reading rather than paying attention

Well, they can also fail you in history. As in "No, It doesn't matter that you were up all night reading Gone with the Wind. The American Civil War is NOT going to be on your Canadian history exam. " hehehe...high school...
On the other hand, reading your textbook could even help you PASS your exams. Which drugs will not do.