Accomplishments and Personal Growth of All Members of the Fellowship

[Nurvingiel]

In Hector's spirit of keeping the Book forum alive, I start a new and interesting thread.

I believe Tolkien described Legolas as the least important, or perhaps the one who accomplished the least of the Fellowship. (If someone knows that actual quote that would be appreciated.)

What did each member of the Fellowship accomplish that was important?

Frodo carried the Ring, a terrible burden, to Mount Doom, where he helped destroy it. He also resisted a poisonned knife wound from a Nazgul.

In the thread, we can discuss important feats of Frodo and the Fellowship.

[Anglorfin]

Well we all knew how the Hobbits grew. Merry and Pippin becoming soldiers in the Mark and Gondor and becoming great captains within the Shire. Frodo and Sam of course fulfilled the quest. Aragorn came into his own. Gimli eventually set up his own kingdom in the Glittering Caves as did Legolas nearby for as long as Gimli was around. Gandalf of course could go back to the West after completing his mission.

I do agree though that in all Legolas "evolved" the least because right from the beginning of the story we pretty much knew where he was headed. He would eventually go with the rest of his people into the West. All of his exploits were at best equal to a good supporting role. To me he is the only one that never really took center stage at some point in the story.

[Bombadillo]

I believe Gimli to be the least important. After all, Legolas was the connection to the fellowship who got them into Lorien, and Gimli was only a setback here. He was setback through much of the book actually, as the slowest of the Three Hunters, the most stubborn (but cool) member of the Fellowship, and arguably (I shoud stress arguably) the cause for Gandalf's "delay", since he was so persistent in going through Moria.

Please correct me kindly if I'm wrong, but the only significant growth I saw in Gimli was the reversal of his hate for the Elves.

NOTE: By NO means at all do I mean to saw that Gimli isn't important, or that he isn't the most downright badass character, because he definately is. It's just impossible to ignore his stubborness and slowness.

[mithrand1r]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
I believe Gimli to be the least important. After all, Legolas was the connection to the fellowship who got them into Lorien, and Gimli was only a setback here. He was setback through much of the book actually, as the slowest of the Three Hunters, the most stubborn (but cool) member of the Fellowship, and arguably (I shoud stress arguably) the cause for Gandalf's "delay", since he was so persistent in going through Moria.

Please correct me kindly if I'm wrong, but the only significant growth I saw in Gimli was the reversal of his hate for the Elves.

NOTE: By NO means at all do I mean to saw that Gimli isn't important, or that he isn't the most downright badass character, because he definately is. It's just impossible to ignore his stubborness and slowness.

I think you are slightly incorrect about Moria. Given a choice between Moria or the pass of Caradhas, Gimli chose Moria.

The Fellowship went to Moria only after trying to go through the pass of Caradhas.

If I had to choose it probably would be Legolas, Boromir or Gimli (with me leaning towards Gimli) only by default. I think the Other members of the fellowship did more.

I will need to think more in choosing between the three above.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
I believe Gimli to be the least important. After all, Legolas was the connection to the fellowship who got them into Lorien, and Gimli was only a setback here.

Actually I would bet Aragorn had just as much of a role as Legolas as getting them into Lorien. Remember, in Aragorn's youth he was invited into Lorien to rendevous with Arwen...They also dressed him as an Elf during that stay and it is said that some thought him to be an Elf Lord...

[Silmo]

Originally posted by Bombadillo
Gimli was a setback through much of the book actually, as the slowest of the Three Hunters, the most stubborn (but cool) member of the Fellowship

I'm too lazy too look up info to back this up, but somewhere in LOTR it says that dwarves have incredible stamina and can run for miles and miles without a break. Now Gimli may have been a bit slower than Aragorn and Legolas because of his stubby legs, but nowhere does it say that he slowed the fellowhip down.

Only in the movies does it appear that Gimli is clumsy, slow, and easily runs out of breath. I believe that the director did this to give the movie some comic relief because, before Gollum, there was no funny characters in the movie.

[Elvellyn]

If importance doesn't necesarily mean being good, then Boromir was definately important. He saved Merry and Pippin, and was kind of reponsible for Sam and Frodo going to Mordor alone. Towards the end of his life he change dhis veiws on the Ring and how it should be used. He definately developed. (If I am getting the books confused with the movies, please correct me. I'm planning to reread them soon.)

[Bombadillo]

I believe they could have made it through the Pass [that I don't want to spell] more easily than Moria, and with a better result, I might add. They'd have no way of knowing that though.
Say what you want, but Gimli stayed the same in my eyes.

Although, Anglorfin, I do see your point, in that Legolas was already an angel in the beginning. He stayed the same too.

Originally posted by Elvellyn
If importance doesn't necesarily mean being good, then Boromir was definately important. He saved Merry and Pippin, and was kind of reponsible for Sam and Frodo going to Mordor alone. Towards the end of his life he change dhis veiws on the Ring and how it should be used. He definately developed. (If I am getting the books confused with the movies, please correct me. I'm planning to reread them soon.)

I don't think Borimir ever really "grew." Granted, I don't like him, but "ll leave that aside.

At some point, he must have, or at least should have, known that the Ring had to be destroyed and not used. But he was obviously corrupted by the Ring. Later, of course, he overcomes this and fights for Frodo, but he didn't actually learn or develop anything new.

He probably could have, but it's that damn Ring!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

From a Michael Martinez Suite101 article:
"Tolkien at one point said of Legolas that, of all the members of the Fellowship, the Elf had achieved the least. Many people have disagreed with Tolkien about that assessment. After all, Gimli didn't bring down any flying Nazgul. Nor, for that matter, did Aragorn or Boromir. Even Meriadoc only earned honorable mention for sneaking up behind the Lord of the Nazgul and stabbing him in the rear of the leg. Of course, Legolas didn't kill the Nazgul (he was dead already) -- just the flying steed."
_______________________________________

1) I know I've seen the observation by Tolkien about Legolas achieving the least somewhere ("Letters"?) but can't find it. Agh!!!
2) It seems to me that book Boromir achieved less and grew less, and next least, achieving wise, was Gimli. But the remarkable forging of friendship between Legolas and Gimli was alone a great achievement (must have been some great tales and songs made of it when the two arrived over Sea, perhaps finally writing finis to that nasty bit involving the two races in Beleriand). Oh, and why wasn't Gimli more ticked off at Treebeard, given the ents helping Beren at Sarn Athrad?

an accomplishment rating?
1--- Frodo (well, duh)
2--- Gandalf
3--- Aragorn
4--- Sam
5--- Merry
6--- Pippin
7--- Legolas
8--- Gimli
9--- Boromir

While I put Sam at "4", I've also thought that it would have been interesting if JRRT had actually had Frodo be killed by Shelob or the orcs and then have Sam and Gollum go on. That would have been an interesting dynamic.
_____________________________________
Also, in consideration of Aragorn's importance in the Fellowship, how about the Top Ten list below (theonering.net) showing his superiority over L. Skywalker
MOON LETTERS : TOOKISH TICKLERS
Top Ten Reasons Aragorn is cooler than Luke Skywalker - Lord of the Dance
10 Aragorn's two side kicks are way cooler than the druids.
9 Aragorn gets a girl.
8 Aragorn does not whine.
7 Aragorn's mystical mentor comes back to life for real.
6 Aragorn's father is really dead.
5 Aragorn disappears and comes back leading an army, Luke disappears and comes back wearing a cloak.
4 Aragorn never had a thing for his sister.
3 The little people that Aragorn hangs out with are only furry on their feet.
2 At the end of his trilogy, Aragorn gets to be a king.

…And the number one reason that Aragorn is cooler than Luke Skywalker

1. Aragorn's sword does not need batteries.

[Nurvingiel]

*thread reviving*


I think Boromir did grow a lot as a person. He went from resenting Aragorn to respecting him. I think this shows maturity - he didn't just hold a grudge. He also fought off about thirty Uruk-Hai single-handedly until finally succumbing to horrible wounds.

I also think Sam deserves the #2 spot. He rescued Frodo from a tower guarded by those horrible sentries, and by hundreds of Orcs. He carried Frodo up Mount Doom. How is that not worthy of number 2? Granted, Gandalf defeated a Balrog and Aragorn reclaimed a lost throne and was instrumental in winning Pelennor Fields, but Sam, also a Ringbearer, earns #2 in my mind.

It is hard to compare each individual's accomplishments. Each member of the company did such great deeds, they are hard to contrast with each other.

[Curubethion]

Boromir really doesn't deserve last spot. He goes about 3 or 4 I think...he was a key member of the Fellowship all along.
1. Frodo
2. Sam
3. Gandalf
4. Aragorn
5. Boromir
6. Merry
7. Pippin
8. Gimli
9. Legolas
It's too bad Merry and Pippin end up 6 and 7...it's just 1-5 do such impressive stuff...

[Nurvingiel]

I agree with you about Boromir Curubethion, but does Legolas deserve the last spot?

Maybe we should "rank" accomplishments differently and allow for ties.

1. Frodo
2. Sam
3. Aragorn, Gandalf
4. Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, Merry, Pippin

?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I would say that Boromir accomplished alot, and should be oint second with Sam and Aragorn. He was corrupted by the ring but overcame it, and regained honour in death. That for me is a great accomplishment.

[tolkienfan]

Boromir did accomplish a lot, but so did everyone else. I'm not sure if he ranks higher than Merry or not. Yeah he did just sneak up behind him, but it had to be hard to do, he'd been black breathed before, I'm sure he was anxious to keep as far away from them as possible. I'm also undecided about Legolas and Gimli.


Frodo
Gandalf/Sam
Aragorn
Merry/Boromir
Pippin
Legolas/Gimli

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

I would say that Boromir accomplished alot, and should be oint second with Sam and Aragorn. He was corrupted by the ring but overcame it, and regained honour in death. That for me is a great accomplishment.

That's an excellent point Telcontar. However, Merry helped kill the Witch-King! I'd say that tops Boromir. Merry and Pippin both also helped repel invaders from their country, and both grew a great deal as people (and I don't just mean physically! )

[Curubethion]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I agree with you about Boromir Curubethion, but does Legolas deserve the last spot?

Maybe we should "rank" accomplishments differently and allow for ties.

1. Frodo
2. Sam
3. Aragorn, Gandalf
4. Boromir, Gimli, Legolas, Merry, Pippin

?

I like the tie idea, that overcomes some of those difficulties. And about Legolas...all he seemed to be doing was fighting in battles, which doesn't quite stack up to anyone else, except Gimli.

[Elanor]

Well, we're talking about two different things here: growth and accomplishment.

Here's my list for accomplishment:

1. Frodo-- carried the ring to Mt. Doom
2. Gandalf-- orchestrated it all, fulfilled his mission
3. Sam-- helped Frodo (a big task!)
4. Aragorn-- reclaimed the throne of Gondor
5. Merry-- helped kill the Witch King
6. Boromir-- gave his life protecting Merry and Pippin
7. Pippin-- saved Faramir
8. Legolas-- lots of fighting
9. Gimli-- lots of fighting


But here's my list for growth:

1. Sam-- went from a simple gardener to the wisest of hobbits, mayor of Hobbiton, and had 12 kids
2. Pippin-- went from a silly hobbit to a warrior and wise leader
3. Gimli-- went from a stubborn dwarf to a kind and tolerant friend
4. Boromir-- went from lusting the ring to saving hobbits
5. Merry-- went from a clever hobbit to a fierce warrior
6. Aragorn-- went from Isildur's heir to the king
7. Frodo-- went from the wisest of hobbits to a wiser but broken and sad person
8. Legolas-- went from a good hunter to a wise warrior
9. Gandalf-- went from the wisest of maiar to an even wiser wizard

When I think of growth, I consider where they were to start with, contrasted with what they learned along the way and how great they became. Yes, Frodo and Gandalf grew on their journey, but when you compare how they started to how they ended up, is the difference that great? I don't think so. Certainly Frodo learned a lot, but is his change for the better? At the end, where Frodo just dwindles and fades away, Sam becomes a strong leader and passes on his wisdom to his children, IMO the greatest growth of all.

[Nurvingiel]

Thoughtful post Elanor. I didn't think to separate growth and accomplishments, because they are different of course.

I agree with both your lists. I think the problems we were having before was because we were trying to include growth and accomplishment in the same list.

For Gandalf's accomplishment, don't forget to include that he defeated a Balrog and became Gandalf the White, head of his order. That's kind of a biggie there.

[Elanor]

Yes, Gandalf's accomplishments are great. But in the end he doesn't really grow that much, because he just goes back West. He has gained power and prestige, but in Valinor I'm guessing those don't matter as much. The wisdom he gains is negligible compared to the wisdom he has to start with! With the threat of Sauron and the Ring gone, Gandalf presumably ends up much the same as how he began-- a wise maia and helper of the Valar, though if there were another threat the Istari order had to deal with, I'm sure he would be the leader.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

That's an excellent point Telcontar. However, Merry helped kill the Witch-King! I'd say that tops Boromir. Merry and Pippin both also helped repel invaders from their country, and both grew a great deal as people (and I don't just mean physically! )

I personally think that overcoming the temptation tops, even what Merry did. Isildur who was Numenorean, directly descended from Elros couldn't overcome this temptation.