ALL the rings

[Insidious Rex]

Ok Sil experts help me out here. From what it says in the rings of power section Sauron helps the elves create a bunch of powerful rings. And the elves (except for Gil Gilad and Elrond) are cool with it and dont realize its one big trick. Then when Sauron makes The One Ring they realize theyve been fooled and they take the rings off and that pisses Sauron off so he goes after the rings. And he gets all but the three most powerful. He then gives these rings to the dwarves (7) and the men (9). now what i want to know is this:

What happens to the dwarf rings? Sauron could not turn the dwarves with the rings much to his disapointment but they still caused enough trouble to basically screw up the kingdom of every dwarf that possesed one. it says some are "consumed in fire" but some were later recovered by sauron. so does he have those rings at the point when The Lord of the Rings take place still?

What happens to the human rings? obviously the humans turn into wraiths but does Sauron take their rings once they become his slaves? or do they just keep them?

How does having all these rings in his posession benefit him? Having The One Ring is key but why does he need all 20? Would that increase his power even more?

[markedel]

Sauron has the rings that have survived-note that he took Thror's ring in Dol Guldur. This is also stated explicitly here and there in LOTR.

[Artanis]

Sauron put some of his power into those rings (the 9 and 7). I guess he would not want them to be lost or destroyed, so he gathered them back after they had corrupted their bearers.

3 or 4 of the Rings given to the Dwarves were consumed by dragonfire.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Artanis
Sauron put some of his power into those rings (the 9 and 7). I guess he would not want them to be lost or destroyed, so he gathered them back after they had corrupted their bearers.

Sauron had never touched the Three Rings of the Elves. Why do you suppose the One Ring had power over them if he had not touched them, or was not able to place any of his power in them?

[Artanis]

Well, Celebrimbor had learned from Sauron how to make these Rings, and Sauron knew all the secrets of Celebrimbor's craft, so he was able to make the One Ring to rule the Three even if he hadn't touched them.

[Insidious Rex]

Yeah I kind of see it like computer programs (sorry. pathetic analogy mode has switched on as usual). the other rings were like powerful programs. Sauron is a master programer. So he knew how these programs operated. And he made one Master Program (virus?) that could tap into the abilities of all the other programs and use their power against them like viruses use emailing programs for their own evil purposes.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Yeah I kind of see it like computer programs (sorry. pathetic analogy mode has switched on as usual). the other rings were like powerful programs. Sauron is a master programer. So he knew how these programs operated. And he made one Master Program (virus?) that could tap into the abilities of all the other programs and use their power against them like viruses use emailing programs for their own evil purposes.

It’s actually a very good analogy, in all likelihood. Sauron did use the Rings of Power as a means into the minds of those who wore and used them.

First, all the Rings were made for Elves, not Dwarves or Men. The Ring-poem begins, Three rings for the Elven-king under the sky…, but it’s likely that’s a rhyme of lore preserved among the Northern Dúnedain, whose royal family knew about the Rings because of its close alliance with Gil-galad, Elrond, and the surviving MÃ*rdain (Elven-smiths who made the Rings in the Second Age under Sauron’s tutelage) in Rivendell; the Southern Dúnedain also retained some information: both Boromir and Faramir knew about the Ruling Ring.

Next, the Dwarves claimed that Celebrimbor, leader of the MÃ*rdain and grandson of Fëanor, personally gave the greatest of the Seven Rings to his friend and ally Durin III lord of Khazad-dûm. The Wise (the Keepers of the Three Rings, the Wizards, and the other leaders of the Eldar) doubted this, but I suspect that was merely suspicion on their part; otherwise, Sauron had to have given that Ring to Durin himself, presumably before he ever reached Eregion and seized the Nine and the Seven, which seems mighty unlikely.

If Celebrimbor did give the greatest of the Seven to Durin, that might well have inspired Sauron to try to ensnare the other six Dwarven kings by giving them the other six of the Seven Rings. But Tolkien says in Appendix A that,

[T]he Dwarves … proved untamable by this means. The only power over them that the Rings wielded was to inflame their hearts with a greed of gold and precious things, so that if they lacked them all other good things seemed profitless, and they were filled with wrath and desire for vengeance on all who deprived them. But they were made from their beginning of a kind to resist most steadfastly any domination. Though they could be slain or broken, they could not be reduced to shadows enslaved to another will; and for the same reason their lives were not affected by any Ring, to live either longer or shorter because of it. All the more did Sauron hate the possessors and desire to dispossess them.

After deciding to see what they would do to the Dwarves, giving the Nine to Men was probably an easy decision, and those who received them were likely easily overmastered by Sauron.

Some of the texts suggest Eregion was led by Galadriel and Celebrimbor. Galadriel wanted a place she could rule herself: She was far older than Gil-galad, who was born in Middle-earth during the First Age, and while he probably welcomed her in Lindon (in all the tellings of Gil-galad’s heritage, she is his aunt by some removes), still she desired her own realm: that’s why the temptation to take the One Ring was so powerful for her when Frodo freely offered it. When Sauron tried to enter Lindon in disguise as Annatar (“Giver of Gifts”), claiming to be a Maia in the following of Aulë the Smith, Gil-galad mistrusted him, and he and Elrond barred his entry. He then went to Eregion, where Galadriel, who personally knew Aulë, warned that there was no Annatar in the Vala’s following; but so great was the lore that Sauron possessed – he really was a Maia of Aulë’s following in his origins – that Celebrimbor and the Elven-smiths (the MÃ*rdain) took the chance that he was telling the truth. Galadriel was forced to leave Eregion, and as she had left Beleriand by passing east over the Blue Mountains with her consort Celeborn in the First Age, she and Celeborn left Eriador by passing east over the Misty Mountains. Later, when Sauron prepared to attack Eregion, Celebrimbor gave Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, to Galadriel to hide it. (To do this he probably went through Khazad-dûm, giving him an opportunity to give Durin III the greatest of the Seven Rings.) Eregion was most likely populated mostly by Noldor; Legolas says, “the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk.” Celebrimbor, a descendent of Fëanor, and his followers were living in Eregion in part to have a realm independent of Gil-galad, the rightful king of the Noldor.

Gil-galad was “High King” of the Elves, but he was High King of only the Noldor; the Sindar did not recognize his rule over them. That meant that Gil-galad and CÃ*rdan ruled Lindon co-jointly: CÃ*rdan was older than either Gil-galad or Galadriel, having been born in Cuiviénen and participated in the Great Journey to the Sea. These two received the other two of the Three Rings: Sauron suspected where they were disposed, but he could never be certain, and when he attacked Lindon after sacking Eregion, the Númenóreans attacked him from behind and so thoroughly annihilated his army that he himself barely escaped.

Originally Posted by Artanis

3 or 4 of the Rings given to the Dwarves were consumed by dragonfire.

Right.

Originally Posted by Artanis

Well, Celebrimbor had learned from Sauron how to make these Rings, and Sauron knew all the secrets of Celebrimbor's craft, so he was able to make the One Ring to rule the Three even if he hadn't touched them.

Also correct. Celebrimbor not only learned from Sauron, but Sauron learned from Celebrimbor! Sauron sojourned with the Noldor of Eregion over three hundred years.

Gandalf told Frodo that the Elves also made many lesser rings of various sorts, probably beginning this work before Sauron arrived in Eregion; furthermore, he said (quoting Saruman) that Sauron made the Ruling Ring “‘round and unadorned, as it were one of the lesser rings.’” Gandalf first mistook Bilbo’s Ring for one of these lesser rings, which were still apparently found from time to time, until Bilbo’s anomalous longevity and especially his reaction to his friend Gandalf convinced the wizard something was wrong.

So “ALL the rings” includes not only the twenty Rings of Power, but also an unknown number of lesser rings: Gandalf told Frodo there were “many Elven-rings …: some more potent and some less.” Some of these Sauron must have taken, but some of them must have evaded his grasp so that they were occasionally found and used, if some of the Elves who bore them ever lost them at all.

One last point: When Sauron attacked Celebrimbor and the Elves of Eregion, Gil-galad sent Elrond to help them. When Sauron subsequently overran Eregion, seizing the Nine and at least six of the Seven Great Rings, Elrond led some survivors into a valley in the Misty Mountains because they were cut off from Gil-galad in Lindon by Sauron’s army. This was the foundation of Rivendell. The Elven smiths in Rivendell who reforged the broken sword Narsil into Andúril for Aragorn were surely surviving MÃ*rdain of Eregion!

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

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... This was the foundation of Rivendell. The Elven smiths in Rivendell who reforged the broken sword Narsil into Andúril for Aragorn were surely surviving MÃ*rdain of Eregion!

VERY interesting thought that you end with. That maybe some of the very smiths who were making rings of power 5000 years before - re-forged Narsil!