Why did Glorfindel come back to life?

[Artanis]

Thanks a lot Findegil, I found it in Morgoth's Ring now. But if Finwë could choose to stay in Mandos' Hall and reject further life, and this was approved by him, then I'm more confused than ever about the 'wilful death' of the Elves.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

O, that's a nice story. I'm surprised I haven't seen it in the most romantic Tolkien story thread.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Artanis
But if Finwë could choose to stay in Mandos' Hall and reject further life, and this was approved by him

That choice is a life for a life. Doing so allowed Miriel to to come back. Thus no net life was lost. Also it was not view as (much of) an offence to Indis, because they had already been estranged when Finwe was killed.

[Falagar]

But what would happen when MÃ*riel and Indis "die" (loose their body)?

[Lefty Scaevola]

If one or both die and decline to come back to life, Then Finwe again would be allowed to choose to do, just as Miriel got the chooice back by Finwe sacrificing the option.

[Artanis]

Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola
That choice is a life for a life. Doing so allowed Miriel to to come back. Thus no net life was lost. Also it was not view as (much of) an offence to Indis, because they had already been estranged when Finwe was killed.

Thanks Lefty. I see the point, to avoid Finvë living with two lawful wives. But it isn't the menage de trois Miriel - Finwë - Indis that troubles me, but Finwë's wilful separation of his fëa and his rhöa. I thought this was considered a weakness, and though the Valar would not hinder it, they would not approve it. But in Finwë's case they seem to accept it clear enough. I'm confused.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Because having two live wives is viewed to be even more unatural for elves. What a buch of prudes (the elves and the valar) If I were one of the greastest king of my race, I would demand a harem.

[Artanis]

Because having two live wives is viewed to be even more unatural for elves.

OK, I see. Finwë would have wanted resurrection if it wasn't for Miriel's desire to go back to life. As at were, he volunteered to stay at Mandos until the world's end, which is not the same as rejecting further life.

What a buch of prudes (the elves and the valar) If I were one of the greastest king of my race, I would demand a harem.

Maybe you should consider becoming a muslim? I think male muslims are allowed to have four viwes. Would that match your capacity?

[Falagar]

Or you could just become Eru and change the rules

[Fëannel]

There's never a certainty that the character's in Tolkien's works, when referred to, are the same; according to the Book of Lost Tales part 2 there was an Elf in Gondolin named Legolas Greenleaf, whose eyesight was exceptional, even for an elf; the same trait that the elf in the Fellowship of the Ring bore, and yet it was said by Orlando Bloom that the latter was only around about 2931 years old; too young to even be a part of the Last Alliance.
There are several repeated names of Men and Elves in different Tolkien works; for example, a man of the First Age was named Boromir.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Legolas Greenleaf of BoLT and the one of the fellowship ARE NOT the same, just so if anyone is confused by Fëannel's statement.

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Fëannel
There's never a certainty that the character's in Tolkien's works, when referred to, are the same; according to the Book of Lost Tales part 2 there was an Elf in Gondolin named Legolas Greenleaf, whose eyesight was exceptional, even for an elf; the same trait that the elf in the Fellowship of the Ring bore, and yet it was said by Orlando Bloom that the latter was only around about 2931 years old; too young to even be a part of the Last Alliance.
There are several repeated names of Men and Elves in different Tolkien works; for example, a man of the First Age was named Boromir.

Yes, such as the names Mablung, Minas Tirith, and Findalus; however, as shown above Glorfindel was the same.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

There were many cases in Elven re-naming. For example, Arakano, was Fingolfins (mother name?) and he passed that onto his youngest son, Argon. (Whose Quenyarin name was Arakano, which menas commander.) Also, Ambarussa, was the mother name of both the twin sons of Feanor (Amrod an Amras) and there was a Rumil in LoTR, the brother of Haldir, and a Rumil of BoLT and The Silmarillion, who was a famous loremaster.

There were a LOT of re-used Elven names amongst men, such Eglamoth, Ectelion and Denethor. Though sadly, no Feanor.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Fëannel
it was said by Orlando Bloom that the latter was only around about 2931 years old; too young to even be a part of the Last Alliance.

However that was only the age PJ gave him, I don't believe we know his real age.

[Willow Oran]

If you try and figure out which names were repeated and which actually belong to the same person you'll just confuse yourself beyond all belief. In Glorfindel's case Tolkien specifically said that there was only one Glorfindel.

(I like your sig. Elf Girl, but Glorfie's MINE. I have the ring to prove it.)

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
However that was only the age PJ gave him, I don't believe we know his real age.

Correct, Legolas' actual age is unknown, unless PJ found some obscure text that he doesn't want to share with everyone else.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

I doubt whether P.J is really foudn any text on Legolas's age because there aren't any. Just plain guesswork.

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Inderjit Sanghera
I doubt whether P.J is really foudn any text on Legolas's age because there aren't any. Just plain guesswork.

I think that he was being facetious.

[Alcuin]

This is a good thread that deserves to be reignited. I recommend in particular the discussion between bropous and Ñólendil (beginning toward the end of the first page and moving onto the second).

I think the general consensus is that the spirit (fëa) of Glorfindel of Gondolin who died fighting a balrog that attacked the refugees that included Tuor, Idril, and young Eärendil in the Crissaegrim above the ruins of Gondolin went to Mandos when Glorfindel was killed. Because of his self-sacrifice in dying to protect others (most notably the seven year old Eärendil, who later arrived in Valinor bearing the Silmaril as an embassy begging clemency and assistance for Elves and Men in their struggle against Morgoth), his part in the Rebellion of the Noldor, which did not include any part in the Kinslaying at Alqualondë, was set aside. Moreover, Elves are by nature bound to Arda until its end, after which they do not know what is to become of them: this is the subject, in fact, of a beautiful essay by Tolkien published in Morgoth’s Ring, “The Debate of Finrod and Andreth.” Any Elf in the keeping of Mandos that had been purged of his failings (Elves are not without sin, though they seek to avoid it) may eventually be rehoused in a body (hröa, not born but prepared for each individual by the Valar) and resume his life as an embodied creature. So it was that Glorfindel also resumed his embodied life.

When and why did Glorfindel return to Middle-earth? At this point the storyline becomes a bit unclear, though the why is clear enough: Glorfindel returned to Middle-earth to fight against Sauron. The when is less clear. It seems to have been Tolkien’s first intention that Glorfindel returned when Gandalf the Grey came to Middle-earth sometime around the end of the first millennium of the Third Age. But there is also a note that suggests that Glorfindel returned in the middle of the Second Age during the War of the Elves and Sauron, when Sauron attacked the Noldor of Eregion and seized the Rings of Power, and then attacked Lindon to wipe out the surviving Eldar of Middle-earth, only to be attacked in turn from behind and utterly defeated by the expeditionary force of Númenor.

All of this is covered in an essay titled “Glorfindel” published in Peoples of Middle-earth. It is not “canon” in that it was written late in Tolkien’s life and not published during his lifetime; however, most readers accept this explanation, with the caveat that no one knows for certain when Glorfindel returned, whether during the Third Age or the Second. (Most people seem to prefer the Third Age; I prefer the Second; but it is of no import either way, unless you’re writing fan-fiction.)

A second issue is covered in this thread: the fëar (spirits, souls) of Fëanor and Finwë his father. Because of his heinous crimes – not so much in leading the Rebellion, but in the horrific and altogether unnecessary Kinslaying at Alqualondë – the spirit (soul) of Fëanor was bound in the Halls of Mandos until the End of Time. Finwë, however, was innocent in all this; but as related in this thread, after Fëanor’s mother MÃ*riel gave birth to him, she lost heart and laid down her life and went to Mandos; and after an age (during the time of the Two Trees), when she would not return despite the urging of the Maiar and Valar, Finwë was permitted to marry Indis, who gave birth to two sons, Fingolfin and Finarfin. After Morgoth slew Finwë at Fëanor’s fortress Formenos and stole the Silmarils, Finwë also went to Mandos. There he agreed to remain so that MÃ*riel might return at last to live as an embodied creature, while his spirit remained unhoused (without a body) in Mandos. That might have been, I think, in part so that Finwë could commune with his beloved son Fëanor, whose spirit was confined not only for his actions, which were all but unforgivable, but to reason with him and work toward his redemption; but that’s just my opinion.

A last note on this subject of canonicity: None of this is “canon” because none of it was published during Tolkien’s lifetime. His youngest son and executor Christopher published The Silmarillion in 1977 with the assistance of Canadian author Guy Gavriel Kay. Christopher Tolkien was the child most taken with his father’s stories, and has spent the decades since his father’s death in 1973 going through his father’s writings to preserve and illuminate them as best he can – and he has done a magnificent job! Because The Silmarillion was published four years after JRR Tolkien’s death, it cannot be considered canon, either; besides Christopher Tolkien himself remarks in places that he wishes he had included some things in The Silmarillion that he did not, while excluding others: there are many variants on most of the stories.

Bottom line: Glorfindel came back to life because Elves are bound to Arda as long as it exists. Unless they are barred from returning to an embodied existence, the Valar return them to bodies when they deem them ready, and Glorfindel was returned to a body. Glorfindel returned to Middle-earth to fight against Sauron.