Where did the Orcs come from?

justwinget · 06-04-2013, 11:37 AM

Okay, before you say anything, I'll tell you what I know and what I believe:
The original Orcs were created by Melkor in Utumno after/during the Spring of Arda. He did this using captured Elves, and proceeded to corrupt them into Orcs.

I also know that Tolkien never really settled on one idea of how they were made. In the Silmarillion, he explains that they were elves, but in the lost books he mentions that they were humans.

Now here is my theory: (If you are familiar with Fear and Hroar, this will make a lot more sense) Elves weaken when the earth is being destroyed, and Melkor is pro at that, so he buries them under ground and, because they are immortal, they don't die. But as Melkor destroys the earth, their Fear weakens, turning them into a wraith-like entity- Orcs.
Also the different kinds of Orcs (Urak-hai, Snufflers, etc) are made from different beings such as men, elves, and dwarves.

What are your thoughts?

Lefty Scaevola · 06-04-2013, 03:07 PM

Orcs are the ultimate evolutionary product of bureacrats in Utumno/hell.

***Valandil*** · 06-04-2013, 04:20 PM

Changed thread title per board standards.

Welcome to Entmoot.

Theories abound.

Matoro · 03-11-2014, 10:19 AM

Orcs were probably a mixtrue of corrupted elves (after all, the Sindar first thought they were wild avari), humans, beasts and spirits.

Did Tolkien ever address a problem of Orcs being made from Men but still being around before the Men had awakened? IIRC, in his late writings orcs weren't anymore made from Elves.

Galin · 03-11-2014, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matoro

(...) Did Tolkien ever address a problem of Orcs being made from Men but still being around before the Men had awakened? IIRC, in his late writings orcs weren't anymore made from Elves.

In text X, Myths Transformed, Tolkien has altered the timeline and the Awakening of Men [to simplify things here for brevity]. The author of this text still seems to find the [revised] chronology somewhat problematic, but concludes that the theory [Orcs from Men] is nonetheless the most probable.

Also Tolkien introduced Orc-formed Maiar into the mix, and these type [at least] could be around in Middle-earth quite early.

06-04-2013, 11:37 AM	#1
justwinget Sapling Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1	Where did the Orcs come from? Okay, before you say anything, I'll tell you what I know and what I believe: The original Orcs were created by Melkor in Utumno after/during the Spring of Arda. He did this using captured Elves, and proceeded to corrupt them into Orcs. I also know that Tolkien never really settled on one idea of how they were made. In the Silmarillion, he explains that they were elves, but in the lost books he mentions that they were humans. Now here is my theory: (If you are familiar with Fear and Hroar, this will make a lot more sense) Elves weaken when the earth is being destroyed, and Melkor is pro at that, so he buries them under ground and, because they are immortal, they don't die. But as Melkor destroys the earth, their Fear weakens, turning them into a wraith-like entity- Orcs. Also the different kinds of Orcs (Urak-hai, Snufflers, etc) are made from different beings such as men, elves, and dwarves. What are your thoughts?

06-04-2013, 03:07 PM	#2
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Orcs are the ultimate evolutionary product of bureacrats in Utumno/hell. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

06-04-2013, 04:20 PM	#3
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Changed thread title per board standards. Welcome to Entmoot. Theories abound. __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

03-11-2014, 10:19 AM	#4
Matoro Sapling Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Finland Posts: 6	Orcs were probably a mixtrue of corrupted elves (after all, the Sindar first thought they were wild avari), humans, beasts and spirits. Did Tolkien ever address a problem of Orcs being made from Men but still being around before the Men had awakened? IIRC, in his late writings orcs weren't anymore made from Elves.