Dior the Half-Elven: Gift of Men or Fate of Elves

[Rána Eressëa]

I was researching this recently after reading The Silmarillion, and most people seem to count Dior, son of Beren and Luthien, as among the race of Elves, yet interestingly enough that doesn't make much sense to me for the following reasons.

Dior died at the age of thirty-six, full grown, married, and with three children. Elves remain in adolescence for around fifty years before reaching adulthood. He was born F.A. 470, married Nimloth F.A. 496 (only 26 years old), ruled for four years, and died in F.A. 506. Given that elves take so long to mature, and Dior's life is so short, it seems very infeasible that he was an Elf.

He had the appearance of fairness associated with Elves and not of Men most likely due to his Maia heritage and the beauty of his grandmother and mother, often referred to as the most beautiful beings to ever walk the earth, and therefore was probably nicknamed "Dior the Elf" simply due to his looks and his right to rule as Thingol's only heir, whether he was Man or Elf. It seems to me he was counted as an "honorary" Elf, without actually being one of them. (After all, Tuor receives the same treatment from Turgon and his Elven people, widely loved and accepted as one of them and yet not.)

My final verdict is he is beautiful and elvish-looking, yes, but no Elf. Half-elven were not given the choice of being able to choose until Earendil's voyage. Once you mix Men into the equation, it cancels out the immortality of the Elves because Eru would not change the Gift of Men. As is noted, once Elros chose to be Man, none of his descendants could choose to be an Elf. Once Elrond chose to be an Elf, all of his descendants thus had the choice to choose between Elf and Man. So, the fate of Men trumps the fate of Elves.

The biggest thing, however, is Dior's age. It seems in all the threads online that I've seen discussing this confusing matter, no one mentions Dior's age and his un-Elven and very human growth.

[Varnafindë]

Very good point. I hadn't really noticed that Dior was so young when he died. Eärendil is the same, so perhaps he would have been counted as Man, too, if those other circumstances of his hadn't happened.

But Dior is the only heir of Thingol the Elf, so it makes sense that he's some kind of honorary Elf, too.

[Earniel]

His age is very difficult to use as a factor since he was killed in battle so he did not die a natural death that could have indicated he was not an Elf. He was killed by the Fëanoreans when they attacked Menegroth to reclaim the Silmaril Beren had won. I would therefor not fixate on his short age as explanation.

I think that since the choice of the Half-Elves was only instituted when the problem (in the form of Eärendil) was standing right in front of the Valar, DÃ*or and his children were at best classified as 'Undecided' up until that point. It would have been very interesting indeed, if DÃ*or hadn't been slain so early, to see how his life had progressed, had he aged and died, or had he lived unchanged? My personal guess is he would have lived on, not like a full Elf, but simply because his fate was 'Undecided' and death of old age could not claim him until it was decided whether he was Elf or Man, a bit like being in limbo. But I daresay the Elves and DÃ*or himself quite regarded him as Elf, or Mostly Elf.

Interesting too, that when Eärendil had appeared before the Valar, Mandos immediately looked upon him as a mortal Man, until Ulmo asked which parent -Túor the Man or Idril the Elf- was the deciding factor. It is very telling IMO that Mandos has no straight answer to that (i.o.w. Elf-Human mixes really weren't one or the other up until this point, otherwise Mandos would have been able to answer this right away), other than remark (somewhat sulkingly, I always thought) that even if he was an Elf, he was a Noldo and therefor banned anyway from returning to Aman (and Mandos had therefor every reason to question Eärendil's presence, so there.). And only after that does Mandos decide their should be a way to tell them apart and to institute the choice of the Half-Elves.

DÃ*or's early marriage, however, is a more useful factor. It's be useful to find out how this piece of writing corresponds in time to Tolkien's writing on Elven custom pertaining maritable age. Was this an oversight, something Tolkien forgot to correct in light of what he wrote about Elven customs? Or did he get stuck in his own time-line, needing DÃ*or to have offspring, without having the time in correlation with other events that needed taking place to have him marry at an more Elf-appropriate age? Or is meant as a clear hint to DÃ*or's mortal inheritage? There's plenty of room for discussion here, I wager.

The fate of the later Half-Elves is a different matter, I think. And one, I believe, has been dealt with at lenght in many other threads. My personal take on them, is that they never quite could choose to be fully Elven or fully Human, that their other parentage prevented a full choice. That at best they could choose to stay Half-Elven, which was pretty much the same in my eyes as fully Elven, except that they and their children (no matter how much Men or Elf there was in them through the other parent-line) could still choose to become mortal, which was not entirely like fully Men either, because they kept so many Elven traits (beauty, wisdom and long-livety) anyway.

[Galin]

The notion that it took about 50 (or for some 100) years for an Elf-child to becomes an adult is only part of the story in my opinion.

It seems in the later 1950s Tolkien imagined that (this is my interpretation based on the texts Aman, the Athrabeth, and Laws and Customs, all published in Morgoth's Ring): in their beginning in Middle-earth, it took roughly 3000 years for an Elf Child to grow to be an Elf-man or Elf-woman, or around 21 yéni.

A yén is an Elvish Long Year equal to 144 Sun Years, as noted in The Return of the King and as used by Galadriel. This slow rate appears to have also been the case in Aman (see Aman for the text I'm basing this on). And in this conception, the Valian Year equals the Elvish yén, incidentally.

However Laws and Customs states that it took 50, and for some 100 years, for Elves to attain the body in which they would afterwards endure. This is obviously significantly lesser than 3000! Yet in the Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth, Finrod seems to say he notices the change of Elvish bodies is swifter -- in Middle-earth -- than it was in the beginning (and one of the texts here had 'growth' instead of 'change').

So despite the major difference in years, I'm wondering if these three texts possibly represent the same concept -- they appear to be written at about the same time (late 1950s or early 1960s) in any case.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? At this point Tolkien might have also been thinking of a much greater amount of time between the awakening of the Elves and the return of the Noldor -- much greater than that imagined when one Valian Year was 'only' around 10-ish Sun Years -- which might help account for the drastic reduction in the Elvish maturity rate, allowing more years in which it could arguably occur in Arda Marred.


But that said, Tolkien appears to have dropped this idea in any case, as this...

'(...) nette meant 'girl approaching the adult' (in her 'teens': the growth of Elvish children after birth was little if at all slower than that of the children of Men). The Common Eldarin stem (wen-ed) wendé 'maiden' applied to all stages up to the fully adult (until marriage).'

JRRT, Vinyar Tengwar 47

... is dated to 1967-70, written after all the three texts I just noted here.


I tend to doubt all these ideas were intended to be part of the same conception -- that is, even the 50 or 100 had itself internally (within the story) later reduced to Elves growing at about the same rate as Men -- of if so, had this not happened yet by the time Elfwine was being instructed?

Anyway, in the end it's quite possible that Tolkien finally decided that the Elves should grow to adults at about the same rate as Men.

[Alcuin]

If Elwing and her offspring are truly half-Elven and half-mortal, then Dior must be fully mortal.

(I can’t seem to embed this image, but here’s the link: )
http://www.zarkanya.net/Tolkien/ArwenLineage.jpg

[Earniel]

That reminds me of another good reason DÃ*or might indeed have been mortal. And one that makes me wonder why I didn't think of it before. (I don't think it has been mentioned here so far.)

After Beren slew Carcharoth and died, did Lúthien before Mandos not choose to be mortal herself so she could be with Beren? Regardless of whether she herself was an part Elf and part Maian and how much percentage of that DÃ*or would have inherited, if DÃ*or was (as I think I recall) born after the final retrieval of the Silmaril, he was born of a mortal father and a mortal mother. Considering all the things Tolkien wrote about the Half-Elven, it would be rather unlikely for two mortal beings (one of which chose to be so) to conceive a son that is not.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

After Beren slew Carcharoth and died, did Lúthien before Mandos not choose to be mortal herself so she could be with Beren?

She did. That's what later gives the parallell to Arwen.
Arwen and Aragorn's son is only just mentioned in the Appendices, and there's no mention of him having a chance to choose his fate. He is mortal.

And if Dior had been an Elf, his daughter Elwing would not have been Half-elven. But she is, isn't she?

[Galin]

In a relatively late text Tolkien wrote:

'Dior their son, it is said, spoke both tongues: his father's, and his mother's, the Sindarin of Doriath. For he said: 'I am the first of the Peredhil (Half-elven); but I am also the heir of King Elwe, the Eluchil.'

The Peoples of Middle-earth, The Problem of Ros, 1968 or later

So Dior is Half-elven, but this is a blood distinction; and he died before the matter of Earendil and Elwing had been considered, with special dispensation given to these beings and their sons.

According to the Silmarillion of the 1930s:

'... all those who have the blood of mortal Men, in whatever part, great or small, are mortal, unless other doom be granted to them.'

JRRT, Quenta Silmarillion, mid to later 1930s

Did Tolkien intend this to be the case in the 1950s and beyond? I'm not sure the answer can be known, but this statement was not used by Christopher Tolkien in the 1977 constructed Silmarillion in any case.

If it was still held to be true however, then Dior would be mortal-fated in any case. If not, he still died before the choice was ever considered and granted for Earendil, Elwing, Elrond and Elros (and if this was special dispensation for the actions of Earendil and Elwing, then in my opinion others with mixed blood need not necessarily be granted the choice).

And again, if the statement from Quenta Silmarillion was supposed to be true with respect to the 1950s and 1960s, then it might help explain why the choice was extended to Elrond's children -- as, if it was not extended, they would still have a measure of mortal blood and thus [seemingly] be automatically mortal and automatically sundered in fate from their parents.

Not extending the choice to the children of a 'mortal chooser' [Elros] however, returns things to the 'natural state' -- all those with any measure of mortal blood are mortal-fated, and children and parents receive the same fate upon death.

In my opinion