Maedhros' torment

[DARKastheRAIN]

Originally Posted by Ruinel

I always got the impression that Maedhros was above and beyond when it came to pride

which is why he begged his uncle for forgiveness for Helcaraxe, and willingly gave up the kingship of the Noldor

[DARKastheRAIN]

What I am wondering is, why didn't Maedhros say a prayer to Iluvatar or Manwe for some kind of aid? Why did it wait until Fingon did it?

Maybe he didn't think the Valar would listen

Or maybe he did ask for help and they didn't listen. How many times did Turgon's people try to reach Valinor to ask for aid and got nothing but Osse telling them where to go before the sea mercilessly drowned them?

And I also never got the impression that the Manwe exactly directly told Thordondor to help Maedhros. I always figured that he was just there and when he heard Fingon pray to Manwe, he maybe saw it as some kind of sign that now was the moment to help. After all, if Thorondor had just pecked his hand off and flown him off to Mithrim by himself earlier on, there would be no great deed of Fingon the Valient to bring the Noldor back together. Eagles seem to have a thing about only helping at certain timing (if LotR and the Hobbit are any indication)

And furthermore, I'm not sure Manwe could actually have heard him anyway. For one thing Varda was the one with super hearing, Manwe had super sight. And if Manwe could just see and hear everything that went on all over Arda, why would he need Thorondor playing lookout for him?

Originally Posted by Silmarillion chapter 13

For Manwe... ...had sent forth the race of Eagles, comanding them to dwell in the crags of the North, and to keep watch upon Morgoth... ...And the Eagles brought news of much that passed in those days to the sad ears of Manwe

I don't think that it was as simple as saying Manwe save me and you would magically get out of any bad situation.

And as for asking Iluvatar, I don't remember ever hearing of an Elf praying to Iluvatar. As we see at the end of the book, Maedhros at least seems to believe that there is no way for their "voices to reach to Iluvatar, beyong the circles of the world"

[DARKastheRAIN]

lol. I just realized that I just dragged up a really old long passed away post

I had forgotten that I found this in a topic search and it wasn't just sitting on top of the forum

[Cudna]

Maidros is a fallen elf. I don't believe he could have given up his life even if he had wanted to. He had taken the oath, been part of the slaying at Alqualonde and the burning of the ships at Losgar. He was to do much more in the years to come but we'll leave that aside for now.

The oath is very important. One of the corner stones of the Silmarillion. Maidros grief was almost entirely self inflicted. His fea was very hot, for lack of a better term. He was second only to Feanor himself in desire to see the oath fulfilled. He was also increasingly obsessed with physical means as a way to achieve this. It would have been quite impossible for him to voluntarily leave his body at that point.

Asking Fingon to slay him must have been simply nothing more than it seems to be. A way for him to try and end his torment. We may make an argument that he should have thought himself of getting his hand cut off, but how many of us would willingly consider such a thing as losing our own hand?

Maidros could not have voluntarily died at the end of the Silmarillion either, for much the same reasons. And doing so would mean the Silmarillion was still around. His oath binds him to keep the Silmarillion himself or keep it out of anyone elses hands forever. He chose to throw the gem into the fires of the earth. Then not bearing life without it he himself followed. That was not the main point of throwing himself into the chasm though. It was all about the gem.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I would like to comment on some of the earlier descriptions of Maedhros as prideful. I don't see how he is any more prideful than his brothers. In fact, other than Maglor, he seems less prideful than the other sons of Feanor, to me. He is bound by the oath, and that drives much of his behavior, but many times he tries to fulfill it while getting along with his fellow Noldor. He was the only one to oppose his father at the burning of the ships at Losgar, he repented of his father's deeds and submitted to Fingolfin's kingship, and he chastised his brothers for their strife with the sons of Finarfin.

For someone entrapped by the oath, I think Maedhros did his best to be honorable in a difficult situation.

[brownjenkins]

I'd have to agree. The only thing Maedhros is guilty of is loving his father.

[Elennár]

Hey, so this is my first post here, and I'm probably unburying a fairly old topic.
IMO, Maedhros although proud was never 'evil' or 'cruel'; not in the way that Fëanor or Curufin and Caranthir were.
In the end, I think he killed himself from extreme despair- everything that he had done, all the bad things, the slaying, the pain and labours were all for nothing- the Silmaril itself rejected him.

[Serenoli]

Perhaps the reason Maedhros asked Fingon to kill him was because choosing death while being hung up there would have signified defeat to Morgoth; whereas accepting death from a friend's hand would not have the same meaning.

Or perhaps he did not wish his body to be defiled by Morgoth after death - and seeing Fingon, he knew that at least in death he would be buried honourably.