Entmoot
 


Go Back   Entmoot > J.R.R. Tolkien > Middle Earth
FAQ Members List Calendar

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 06-21-2018, 10:29 AM   #1
Valandil
High King at Annuminas Administrator
 
Valandil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
Did Valandil have Rival Claimants to the Throne of Arnor?

Lately I have wondered about this. Were there any rival claimants to the Throne of Arnor, eventually claimed by Valandil?

Another question might be: Did he have an older nephew - and would this man have been clearly after or before him in the line of succession - or would it not be clear?

Before the War of the Last Alliance, Elendil was King of Arnor, and his sons - Isildur and Anarion - co-ruled in Gondor. Then of course, Sauron marched his forces out of Mordor and the War began (3429 Second Age). Isildur already had three sons at this time: Elendur (age 130), Aratan (90) and Ciryon (50). Those names are as given in Unfinished Tales - "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields", while the ages come from The Peoples of Middle Earth, Volume 12.

The birth of Valandil one year after the war began (3430 Second Age) is mentioned as a curiosity - because the Dunedain imitated the Elves in not having children during time of war (we can imagine that this was not the case for their ancestors in First Age Beleriand - or those Men would have died off). A few years later, Elendil, Isildur (who had gone north to meet with his father while Anarion "held the fort" in Gondor), and those three older sons marched off to war, while Isildur's wife and his youngest son, Valandil, remained in Rivendell.

Of course, Elendil died at the end of the War - Isildur decided to take up the rule of Arnor and leave Gondor to his nephew, Meneldil - son of Anarion. But Isildur and his sons were all slain by Orcs on their way north to Rivendell (where they intended to pick up Isildur's wife and youngest son on their way to Annuminas). When news of this reached Rivendell, Valandil would have been about 14.

It was not until 7 years later that Valandil was made King of Arnor. There was no King of the North Kingdom in those intervening years.

Does the delay imply that there were no rival claimants? Or - is it possible that other claimants existed, and that a Council of Arnor was initially deliberating what action to take - and maybe later stalling to allow Valandil to reach full adulthood?

I would think the likeliest rivals would be sons of Elendur, Aratan and Ciryon. It's interesting that Isildur, his father Elendil, and Elendil's father Amandur - all had their eldest son at age 90. Quite old to us, but these men had very long lifespans. Elendil died in battle at something like 322! The spacing worked with their lifespans - and also allowed an heir sufficient time to rule. Things might have gotten confusing if each generation was only 25 years apart and there were 12-15 generations around at one time - each King ruling only 25 years, all in their very old age.

Ciryon, being only 50 when the war began, was unlikely to have had a son yet. Aratan - possibly, at 90 - but it's hard to say whether second/third sons would marry and start their families earlier (less concern about succession), or later (perhaps intentionally kept busy with official duties, and marriage possibilities delayed, so that their offspring would be significantly younger than an elder brother's).

Elendur, however, seems very likely to have followed the 90-year pattern. And I would guess, when the war began - likely had a son of about 40 years old. He would have been 55 when news of the Gladden reached Rivendell - and 62 when Valandil came to the throne. That is - IF he survived the war, and if he wasn't part of Isildur's guard on the march north.

Surviving the war is a tough question. That could have gone either way. If he was NOT in Isildur's group traveling to Rivendell, where WAS he? His grandfather was going north to become King of another land, his father was perhaps the new king's most trusted advisor. Would he be in Gondor? If so, why and where?

I suggest that he could well be there in Gondor - tending to things at Minas Ithil - the royal palace of Isildur from his days co-ruling Gondor before the war began - and when it was taken by Sauron's forces. This man would have grown up there, his mother was likely from Gondor (did she stay behind in Gondor - or travel up to Arnor in 3429 at the war's beginning?) In any case, there would have been a lot of cleanup to do at Minas Ithil, after occupation by Sauron's forces for some years. And I doubt that Isildur would want to entirely give up his personal holdings in Gondor - even if he left rulership in the hands of his nephew. After all, he would still be "High King" over both lands, and might want the estate for purposes of maintaining his connection and reinforcing his position in the South Kingdom.

It's also possible that this man, Elendur's son, was left nominally in charge at Annuminas when the Army marched south to war. It might have appealed to some that a great-grandson of King Elendil would be watching over them as a regent of some kind.

If he WAS at Annuminas - would that strengthen his position in relation to the "boy king" Valandil?

OR - had he alienated the nobles of Arnor while there? And/or, perhaps they thought they could shape a very young king to their liking, if they made Valandil king?

Perhaps their laws of succession were quite clear, and it didn't matter if there was such a nephew, as far as things with Valandil were concerned.

Alcuin - you know your Rules of Succession pretty well. Who would have precedence: A younger son of the previous king, or a grandson of the king - whose father was next in line, but who had never been acknowledged as king?

Thanks for reading!
__________________
My Fanfic:
Letters of Firiel

Tales of Nolduryon
Visitors Come to Court

Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™

[Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl]


Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!
Valandil is offline   Reply With Quote
 



Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Calling All Nazgul : Formal Info Thread The last sane person RPG Forum 37 07-20-2006 06:50 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) 1997-2019, The Tolkien Trail