Color Blind/Color Blessed

[Rían]

I've been thinking about some racial issues this week, ever since I heard an interesting phrase suggested by someone to use in place of "color blind". She was saying don't be color blind, be color blessed!

It made me think of a lot of things (I can just hear Lizra laughing at me - she thinks I think too much!)

Then I read this article in our local paper today, which also was pertinent to what I was thinking. So here's the article, and then I'll post some thoughts, and look forward to reading your guys' thoughts on the subject



dailynews.com
Article Published: Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 12:00:00 AM PST

Court offers inmates 'diversity' to die for


By Chris Weinkopf, Editorial-page editor


For the majority of the U.S. Supreme Court, California prisoners' right to fully integrated prisons apparently supersedes their right to live.

Judicial imperialism is, if nothing else, bizarre.

On Wednesday, the Court ruled in Johnson v. California that the state's Department of Corrections must go before a lower court to justify, under the terms of "strict scrutiny," its policy of racially segregating certain inmates. That means the California Department of Corrections gets one last chance to defend a policy that has nothing to do with discrimination and everything to do with saving lives - a policy that the activists on the court seem committed to abolishing.

For no more than two months after inmates arrive at a California prison, they stay in racially segregated two-man cells. The idea is to determine if they belong to violent, racist gangs before putting them in close quarters with other prisoners they may try to maim or kill. The CDC also won't initially bunk Northern California Latinos with Southland Latinos, as they're likely to belong to rival gangs. Nor will it put Asians of different nationalities in the same cell until confident that doing so won't result in ethnic violence.

The policy is based on common-sense safety measures, with not even a hint of bigotry. Though separated, the inmates are treated entirely equally, and when it's determined that they can be safely integrated, they are. No one claims that inmates of some races receive better treatment than others. Inmates of all races benefit from the policy, as they're removed from harm's way.

The state argued, and lower courts agreed, that the policy was constitutionally sound under the more lax terms of the 1987 case of Turner v. Safley. In that ruling, the Supreme Court acknowledged that, in the interest of order and safety, prisoners' constitutional rights can sometimes be restricted. The Turner ruling also held that it's up to prison officials who do the day-to-day work of safeguarding their facilities - and not judges, who lack any such expertise - to determine which rights need be curtailed, provided that doing so is "reasonably related" to legitimate penal interests.

By that standard, California's policy clearly stands up to constitutional muster.

But the "strict scrutiny" standard called for in Johnson v. California is another matter entirely. Now the CDC must demonstrate a "compelling state interest" for its policy, and it must show that the rule is "narrowly tailored." While the compelling state interest - thwarting racial gang violence - would seem to go without saying, the "narrowly tailored" provision is tricky. It enables judges to prohibit the policy if they believe the same goals could be achieved in some other way.

In other words, Johnson v. California usurps the authority the court extended to prison officials in Turner, allowing judges to micromanage the nation's penitentiaries - a job for which they're manifestly unqualified. But after decades of judges' pretending to be legislators, we shouldn't be surprised that they now fancy themselves prison wardens, too.

If Justice Sandra Day O'Connor's language in the majority opinion in Johnson is any indication, these would-be wardens seem determined to bring their own racial vision to the state's prison system. Under that vision, members of the system's five largest gangs - the Aryan Brotherhood, the Black Guerrilla Family, the Nazi Low Riders, La Nuestra Familia and the Mexican Mafia - will all live happily side by side, assuming they're not too busy slitting each other's throats.

In O'Connor's ruling - joined by all the court's usual liberal stalwarts, save Justice John Paul Stevens, who held out for even more - the court goes to great lengths to disparage the policy that has helped to keep the peace in California prisons for 25 years. "By insisting that inmates be housed only with other inmates of the same race," O'Connor opines, "it is possible that prison officials will breed further hostility among prisoners and reinforce racial and ethic divisions."

Well, sure, it's possible, just as it's possible that a little one-on-one time with a minority inmate might turn a hardened member of the Aryan Brotherhood into a born-again civil-rights crusader. But that's not what the officials who actually run the prisons have found. And who's better suited to decide which policies will most likely lead to smooth prison operation: those who have spent their careers operating prisons, or eight unelected justices sitting 3,000 miles away?

Silly question. The justices consider themselves masters of all trades.

O'Connor even lectures the CDC for "perpetuating the notion that race matters most." That's ironic, seeing that it was O'Connor who, two years ago, wrote in the court's Grutter v. Bollinger decision that racial discrimination is permissible in college admissions. Her reasoning then was precisely that race does matter most, so much so that a public university's commitment to "diversity" can trump its obligation to treat people equally, regardless of skin color.

Now diversity in California's two-man prison-transfer cells also trumps the need to keep prisoners safe. Of course, should the courts ultimately overturn the CDC's policy and prisoners respond by killing each other, this same group of justices will declare that the condition of California prisons constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

And, for once, they'll be right.

Chris Weinkopf is the Daily News' editorial-page editor. Write to him by e-mail at chris.weinkopf@dailynews.com.

[Rían]

So to finish my post, I was thinking about some things in my life relating to racial issues ...

When I was in high school, the crowd I mostly ran around with was white kids in the AP classes (calculus, physics, etc.) However, I was also in another crowd - sports - and in this crowd, there were some kids from different ethnic backgrounds. I remember our basketball team -
Tracy, our starting center, with her afro and long lanky body and her smile that lit up a room;
Tia, our starting forward, very quiet and kinda goofy but boy could she hit those outside shots;
I was the other starting forward, skinny white girl with glasses and braids;
Cindy, our starting guard, Chinese, and boy could she dribble, and
Cathy, the other starting guard, even whiter than I was, with red hair and a temper to match.
Karen, our first sub - dark, dark skin, stunningly beautiful, sweet as anything, and taught me the meaning of a few words that I didn't know the meaning of!

We were friends.

Yet friends only in the sports circles, except for Karen, who was in one of my AP classes, and whom I always enjoyed talking with.

I can still remember seeing Tracy with a group of friends, all black, across campus, and calling out a "hello!" to her. And Tracy - beautiful, smiley, laughing Tracy - barely smiled, barely returned my hello, and the kids with her glared at her for even the weak hello she gave me. I think that's when I first was hit by the ugliness of prejudice. Tracy was a great girl! such fun, so sweet - but Tracy around a group of friends of her ethnic background was a different Tracy


The second thing I remember is at work - I worked as an engineer at a military radar company. Some of my friends were Bharat and Pradeep, two guys from India; Piya, a guy from Thailand; Paul and Dan, two Japanese guys; Sonny, a Filipino guy, and Laura, a girl from Korea. So how do I describe these people? With their sex and their ethnic group. Is that "bad" somehow? I don't know ... I don't think so ...

See, from across the room, if I wanted to point one of them out, I would say, "There's Sonny - the short Filipino guy - he's such a great guy!" It's really the easiest way to point someone out! We look at people's faces mostly, and what is (sometimes/mostly) obvious from a face is their sex and their ethnic background. If there were a bunch of Filipinos all together, I would have to say "the guy in the blue shirt", but if Sonny was in a group of white guys I would say "the Filipino guy". So is there anything wrong with that? Have we gone so far from the horrors of prejudice that we're throwing out the baby with the bathwater and we're afraid to acknowledge ethnic differences as a GOOD thing?

I know I am SO glad I got to know all these people, and find out about their backgrounds! I was thrilled to talk with Pradeep about one of my favorite books, Kipling's "The Jungle Books" (don't think of the movie - the books are great!) and find out that the names of the animals actually translated into the type of animal in Hindi! (IOW, "Hathi" is the name of the elephant, and "Hathi" means elephant in Hindi.) I got a kick out of hearing how Laura would take her kimchi and dip it in her water glass to make it less potent. I learned some Tagalog from Sonny. I learned the secret of pronouncing Japanese names from Paul. And on and on.

I think it's kind of a neat idea - replacing a term, "color blind", which means you don't see something, with "color blessed" - which means you see something that is there! and rejoice in it and enjoy it!

What do you guys think?

[Artanis]

I agree with you up to a certain point RÃ*an - that there is nothing wrong in acknowledging what is obviously there. And 'Color blessed' is indeed a nice term! The problems begin with all the stereotopies that follows a skin color, or a religion, or your sex for that matter. It is a problem when people ONLY see the skin color and immediately think that they know everything about the character of the person, the customs of the family, the social behaviour, and are not able to look what's beneath the surface.

Race is still a difficult issue to talk about. Hard feelings involved ...

[Nurvingiel]

Wow, great post RÃ*an! I don't really have a comment on the article - I'll attempt to avoid passing a judgement on people hundreds of miles away. (For once... )

As for colour blind... in this case, it's positive. If you say, "When it comes to people's race, I'm colour blind," it's a great term because that's when you don't want colour to matter. Colour blessed is cool but colour blind makes more sense to me. Unless you mean "colour blessed" in that you're lucky to know lots of people from different backgrounds.

This is a very interesting thread. I'm going to give it some more thought! I'm trying to figure out different people's backgrounds from my highschool. Most kids were white, I think there were two (!) black kids in an entire school of 750, probably about 15 native kids, maybe the same amount of asian kids. The whole school pretty much knew each other, and there weren't problems with race. Actually, I went to a great school in a lot of ways.

Also, the city had/has a significant non-white population. What I mean by that is even though most of the people were white, there's the Indian reserve which is an important part of the city, and a lot of people live there, and there's many immigrants from Japan, China, Italy, India, and Greece (enough people to start a Greek Orthodox church anyway).

Every Canada day, there would be a huge celebration in the big city park, and the Multicultural society would have booths from different cultures that everyone would really enjoy. Canadian culture is like a mosaic. Every time someone new comes into the country they add another tile. I believe the word "multicultural" is also a Canadian invention.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Unless you mean "colour blessed" in that you're lucky to know lots of people from different backgrounds.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Artanis

I agree with you up to a certain point RÃ*an - that there is nothing wrong in acknowledging what is obviously there.

but I was thinking of going beyond acknowledging to "celebrating", to use a currently overused term. Something like "I bet you might have different experiences and stories than I have, and I'd like to know about them, and know about YOU!"

The problems begin with all the stereotopies that follows a skin color, or a religion, or your sex for that matter. It is a problem when people ONLY see the skin color and immediately think that they know everything about the character of the person, the customs of the family, the social behaviour, and are not able to look what's beneath the surface.

Absolutely. I am VERY much against stereotypes. It happens to me a lot - I tell people I'm a Christian, and immediately I get attitudes, etc. assigned to me that are NOT my own, even if I specifically state otherwise!

Race is still a difficult issue to talk about. Hard feelings involved ...

Yes - I thought it might be good to talk about here.

[Rían]

I was hoping to see more posts on this thread by now, but perhaps everyone feels like Arty - "Race is still a difficult issue to talk about. Hard feelings involved ."

If anyone here has been/is currently in a situation where they felt like a minority, would you please share it here? Both good and/or bad.

[Nurvingiel]

I've personally never been the subject of racism, for which I'm very thankful.

However, there is a significant amount of the population of British Columbia (still the minority) that has a totally backwards and ignorant attitude towards native people.

There is a continuum of moronic attitudes, ranging from silly but relatively harmless assumptions, to being totally bigoted. There was a completely embarassing referendum on the Treaty process(1) when the provincial government was first elected. The questions were biased towards trying to weaken the Treaty process, and legal experts pointed out afterwards that it would never hold up in court. This was probably the dumbest thing our (provincial) government has done, and they've had a couple years to screw something else up by now. (All in all they haven't done a bad job, but that referendum was awful. It bordered on racism and it was done by the government.)
There are people who are only racist towards natives. I mean, you can have someone who's just a racist bastard against everyone not like himself. However, there aren't a lot of people like that. There's a disturbing amount of people who you can be pleasantly chatting to, fellow university students who you know fairly well as intelligent and nice people, then suddenly they'll come out with a completely racist statements about natives.
Erm.. there's a lot more to that rant, but I'll leave it for now. Suffice to say that racism in general pisses me off, but the one I see the most as a British Columbian, is towards natives. In my home city the Reserve is an important part of the city, and I went to school with about 15 or so natives - 1 of whom was in my close circle of friends. If someone says natives are lazy freeloaders, or that events of 150 years ago don't matter, I suppress the urge to tell them to go get hit by a train.

[/rant]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

but I was thinking of going beyond acknowledging to "celebrating", to use a currently overused term. Something like "I bet you might have different experiences and stories than I have, and I'd like to know about them, and know about YOU!"

I completely agree! One thing I love about being an international student is we automatically gravitate towards each other, so I've gotten to know people from all kinds of different countries. Our respective nationalities don't matter as much as the different perspectives each person brings. (Though the German and Austrian students tend to speak German with each other, accidentally excluding non-German speakers, who are in the minority at the moment.)

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Absolutely. I am VERY much against stereotypes. It happens to me a lot - I tell people I'm a Christian, and immediately I get attitudes, etc. assigned to me that are NOT my own, even if I specifically state otherwise!

That sucks RÃ*an - I thought of something funny for you. Say you're a Buddhist, then explain major points of your worldview. Once you see the person "gets it", tell them you're not really Buddhist, you're Christian. Maybe this will help outline the diversity of people within different religions (or serve to confuse the heck out of them ).


(1) The Treaty process is the method by which native landclaims are discussed with the goal of resolution. Claimants and the government hash it out. We've only signed one treaty (the Nisga'a treaty), but many more are in various stages of development. It's worth noting that we've only really started trying to do this properly in the last ten years.

[Insidious Rex]

Is this thread about race or is it about your word play thing? or about the jail segregation controversy? its hard to tell. Im in favor of a thread on race. Would make great discussion material.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

That sucks RÃ*an - I thought of something funny for you. Say you're a Buddhist, then explain major points of your worldview. Once you see the person "gets it", tell them you're not really Buddhist, you're Christian. Maybe this will help outline the diversity of people within different religions (or serve to confuse the heck out of them ).

LOL!! I love it!

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Is this thread about race or is it about your word play thing? or about the jail segregation controversy? its hard to tell. Im in favor of a thread on race. Would make great discussion material.

I don't know, Rexy - my intent was to have a discussion on race issues in general, and I was just throwing out my thoughts on the subject from last week to yesterday to give people ideas and things to think about. So as thread starter, I'd say just race in general, and Mooters feel free to comment on the examples I put out and provide their own experiences/thoughts.

How's that for a vague answer?

I'd just say let's let it go wherever, as long as (here it is, my constant thread-starter condition) it's thoughtful and polite.

I was thinking of another situation where I was definitely a minority - one of my middle son's (age 8 at the time) best friends is Indian (from India), and he was invited to this classmate's (Ravi's) bday party, and we came. We were the only ones from his class to be there. Two others were invited, but weren't able to make it. It was mainly a family party. Ravi's parents were very polite to us (Ravi and my son just love each other!) but I basically wandered around, looking at Hindu statues and enjoying the food and not talking to very many people. It was very busy and crowded and pretty much everyone there was speaking Hindi or some language I didn't understand. When I sat at a table, tho, a few people initiated conversation with me in English, and whenever I was by Ravi's parents, they would chat with me for a moment. The food (homemade) was wonderful, and Ravi continues to be a good friend of my son, and has been over to our house several times. The language thing is sure a difficulty, tho - I don't blame them for wanting to speak their native language. I've been at other parties, too, where I'm the only native English speaker around, and it's kind of an isolating feeling, so I just listen to the language and look at faces and look around and think.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Is this thread about race or is it about your word play thing? or about the jail segregation controversy? its hard to tell. Im in favor of a thread on race. Would make great discussion material.

This thread is about different race issues, both positive and negative. The word play thing and the jail controversy are both race-related discussion points.

[Rían]

what she said ^

[Nurvingiel]

Pssst... RÃ*an... I "get" you!


So... erm... I think I'll let someone else post their thoughts before I keep ranting. Racism just has a way to bring the rage to the surface... *stops self*

IRex? Any thoughts? (Since you started out a post already... )

[Bombadillo]

I'm still in a high school environment (you bunch of geezers ) and I'm seeing a lot of the same things you saw Rian.

I go to a private school, but there's still enough rascism and even ethnic violence to shock my parents any time I feel like telling them; it's just dealt with faster and out-of-control racists are expelled.

We're a pretty diverse school, and I think that my class is racially propartionate to the state population, which is always good.

It's obvious that friends are decided at least partially by race too. Like you said, Rian, people have different groups of friends. I've befriended a bunch of black people, for instance, but anyone can tell that their closer friends are all black. Likewise mine are all white, and my friend Poon's are all Asian, mostly Chinese.

But I don't think that's being racist. (I know you didn't say it was, and you only expressed that it was bad, but I see a fine line between good/okay/bad.) Everyone has prejudices, but only the ones who discriminate against their prejudiced groups are really bad. Everybody else may not even realise their own prejudices, but for these people they are a sub-conscious defense mechanism, or a time-saver really. It's undeniable that different races have different things in common. That's why people are friendlier with people of their own race. Just like you said, Rian, I often look at different people and say "I bet you might have different experiences and stories than I have," but usually I don't bother hearing them. To some extent I don't have to bother, because I know, from past relations with people of that race, what kind of character qualities are common to them, and I can assume that they're in this new person also. If I know that I can't stand those qualities, I don't bother introducing myself to the person outright. I can still observe them and see if they are indeed like their annoying peers first, and I can still keep an open mind, without even being judgemental and without any bad effects.

BTW, this isn't trying to start an argument, and it wasn't directed at you in particalar Rian, although you just happened to say everything I addressed.

Now I have to do a Current Events report on reverse discrimination in Affirmative Action. That's a dumb thing.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I don't know, Rexy - my intent was to have a discussion on race issues in general

well in that case the first thing we need to establish is that theres no such thing as race. period. on a biological level...

Now psychologically and sociologically race is massive of course. And thats probably the point from where we should take things since this is the arena where all the racial issues arise.

Im of mixed race myself so I see things a bit differently. I feel equally comfortable and uncomfortable among any race. I like the chameleon ability of fitting in pretty much wherever I go. Even in races in which I dont share any blood (as far as I know). Because mentally Ive grown up realizing well hell clearly it doesnt matter so just interact with whoever you want to.

Ive been with girls of a wide variety of races and cultures. I love the variety. Im a strong proponent of mixing of the races (through breeding). I think its the answer to racism and its many offshoots. When humanity realizes that it is one tribe and not a collection of many different color ones we will be much better off. Never confuse race with culture.

Many people I meet are often surprised with my tastes and my point of view and how I express myself when they see me for the first time. I find this amusing. This tends to be more with older (over 30) people then younger though. Teens especially seem immune to this phenomenon which is nice. But when I was growing up i can remember many times when perfectly well meaning people would say to me in effect "oh arent you well spoken" or "smart" or "cultured for someone who looks like you." belying a subtle and pervasive racism built into our society. I dont get this as often anymore fortunately. And thats certainly a good sign.

Anyway Ill stop there.

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

but I was thinking of going beyond acknowledging to "celebrating", to use a currently overused term. Something like "I bet you might have different experiences and stories than I have, and I'd like to know about them, and know about YOU!"

Yes - I know what you were saying (at least I think so ). You are interested in other cultures, languages, you want to learn from other people, you appreciate that people are different. Isn't that right? I think that's a great attitude. There is only one small objection; that not everyone with a non-white skin color want to be regarded as 'different', whether it is in a positive or negative way, they might not always be different. Lets say that you have a 'coloured' friend whose family have lived in your country for several generations. Isn't there a chance that this friend thinks of herself as an American first, then woman, then perhaps mother, then scientist or whatever ... and maybe far out in the list, if it's there at all - coloured. This is hard to explain - do you know what I'm saying?

I also agree with what Bombadillo said, that people from the same cultural background tend to stick together, without that having anything to do with racism.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Absolutely. I am VERY much against stereotypes. It happens to me a lot - I tell people I'm a Christian, and immediately I get attitudes, etc. assigned to me that are NOT my own, even if I specifically state otherwise!

Sorry about that. Still - you have to tell people that you are a Christian, it isn't obvious from your appearance. Race differences otoh is there for everyone to see at the first glance. Not to belittle your feelings, but I think that's a significant difference.

Originally Posted by IRex

Many people I meet are often surprised with my tastes and my point of view and how I express myself when they see me for the first time. I find this amusing. This tends to be more with older (over 30) people then younger though. Teens especially seem immune to this phenomenon which is nice. But when I was growing up i can remember many times when perfectly well meaning people would say to me in effect "oh arent you well spoken" or "smart" or "cultured for someone who looks like you." belying a subtle and pervasive racism built into our society.

Exactly what I could have said myself. I've had many similar experiences, mostly during my younger days, fortunately it doesn't happen so often now. Also, complete strangers tend to start talking to me on the street, on the bus or whatever, asking me all sorts of personal questions. Like where do you come from, do you speak the language, do you like Norway, are you happy here? And, 'you speak Norwegian very well!' I'm able to laugh at it most of the time but sometimes it gets bloody annoying.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Artanis

Yes - I know what you were saying (at least I think so ). You are interested in other cultures, languages, you want to learn from other people, you appreciate that people are different. Isn't that right? I think that's a great attitude. There is only one small objection; that not everyone with a non-white skin color want to be regarded as 'different', whether it is in a positive or negative way, they might not always be different. Lets say that you have a 'coloured' friend whose family have lived in your country for several generations. Isn't there a chance that this friend thinks of herself as an American first, then woman, then perhaps mother, then scientist or whatever ... and maybe far out in the list, if it's there at all - coloured. This is hard to explain - do you know what I'm saying?

I do know exactly what you're saying, Arty, and I don't know a solution. In the example of my friends at work, they all had heavy accents, and it was pretty evident that their family had not been in America for several generations!

I also agree with what Bombadillo said, that people from the same cultural background tend to stick together, without that having anything to do with racism.

Yes, it's easier to be around people that have a similar background.

Sorry about that. Still - you have to tell people that you are a Christian, it isn't obvious from your appearance. Race differences otoh is there for everyone to see at the first glance. Not to belittle your feelings, but I think that's a significant difference.

Yes, I agree it's significant I was pointing out that I have some degree of experience (altho very small) with stereotyping, tho.

Exactly what I could have said myself. I've had many similar experiences, mostly during my younger days, fortunately it doesn't happen so often now. Also, complete strangers tend to start talking to me on the street, on the bus or whatever, asking me all sorts of personal questions. Like where do you come from, do you speak the language, do you like Norway, are you happy here? And, 'you speak Norwegian very well!' I'm able to laugh at it most of the time but sometimes it gets bloody annoying.

Yes, I can see how it would be annoying. What do you suggest for a solution? I really don't know one ...

See, I think most people are just naturally interested in someone that looks like they're from another country, and they ask questions in a kind way, and with the intent to make them feel comfortable and included, not realizing that the person has lived in that country most of their lives. What ideas do you have for people to do in this situation? I suppose just don't ask questions, but is that the best solution? I just don't know, and I would appreciate your input.

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I do know exactly what you're saying, Arty, and I don't know a solution. In the example of my friends at work, they all had heavy accents, and it was pretty evident that their family had not been in America for several generations!

Thought so, and I wasn't pointing my finger at you , I was rather trying to explain why 'color blessed' doesn't ring quite perfect in my ears.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

See, I think most people are just naturally interested in someone that looks like they're from another country, and they ask questions in a kind way, and with the intent to make them feel comfortable and included, not realizing that the person has lived in that country most of their lives.

I know that most people are just trying to be kind, but it can get annoying nonetheless, because they automatically assume things about a person that is not at all in accordance with how this person see him/herself. It is tiresome to explain the same things over and over again. But I agree that it's not such a big deal.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

What ideas do you have for people to do in this situation? I suppose just don't ask questions, but is that the best solution? I just don't know, and I would appreciate your input.

Hey - I don't have any solutions either, I only know how to complain. The thing is that all people are different, and I'm sure that many immigrants would highly appreciate the very sort of approach that I find annoying. But for me personally it works best to engage in smalltalk to begin with, and then gradually advance to more personal matters when we get to know each other better. Then it should be possible to avoid at least the most stupid questions.

[Draken]

So what phrase do you used if you actually ARE colour blind then? It's red/blue with me. I think it means I can't be a pilot, though to be honest I've never tried. It also makes 'Twister' a hazardous sport.