What do the LoTR characters write with?

Mic B · 10-16-2002, 06:48 PM

Hi

This is my first time on this message board. I am only halfway through reading FoTR, and so far I have not found an answer to my question:

What do the characters in Lord of the Rings use to write with? Is it ever mentioned in the books?

Thanks!!

markedel · 10-16-2002, 07:05 PM

Tolkien invented several alphabets for the inhabitants of middle earth. Generally the feanorian alphabet-the tengwar was used for writing with ink. There was also a rune alphabet-the Cirth which was used for carving and also by dwarves for pen-writing. When you get to it check out the appendices of ROTK. They are useful.

***Ben*** · 10-16-2002, 07:15 PM

Do you mean their language, their alphabet, or writing utensil?

Mic B · 10-16-2002, 07:58 PM

Their writing utensil

Starr Polish · 10-16-2002, 08:00 PM

Most likely a quill of some sort.

Sminty_Smeagol · 10-16-2002, 10:34 PM

I'm guessing it kind of depends on the culture. The dwarves probably carved in stone with a chisel or something the majority of the time.

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 10-16-2002, 11:38 PM

Good question. Perhaps many in the West -- those without access to quills and parchment which many in Gondor and what was Arnor seemed to possess -- used something like the ancient stylus: something with a wedge-shaped blade at the end used for writing in clay; the clay tablets were put out in the Sun to dry. Or anyway I think that's what they were. The Mesopotamians used them I think. Maybe folk who used the Runes wrote them on such clay tablets with some sort of stylus-like utencil, when they wanted to write letters. Maybe. It would be an idea thing for people like the Galadhrim to do, in consideration of trees, only I don't think they would have had the recources.

***RÃan*** · 10-17-2002, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mic B
Hi This is my first time on this message board. I am only halfway through reading FoTR, and so far I have not found an answer to my question:
What do the characters in Lord of the Rings use to write with? Is it ever mentioned in the books?
Thanks!!

Hi, and welcome! I hope you like it here.

Ok, just a quick note from one of the Tengwar web sites:

Quote:

The Feanorean alphabet was designed to be an orderly phonetic writing system for use with pen or brush.

Now, that's not directly from Tolkien, but it seems to be a very good site, so I'll just toss that in for now and try to find some more info later on (I need to get off Entmoot and pay some bills now, bleah!)

ps - you might want to check out the "Writing using Tengwar Characters" thread in the Middle Earth forum. Several of us like to write (in English) using Feanor's characters, and if you like that sort of thing, it's a really interesting thread. Hope to see you there!

BTW, the site is here (click on the word "here" and it will take you to the site) (you probably already know that, but it doesn't hurt to say just in case

)

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 10-17-2002, 12:35 AM

I thank you RÃ*an. I will (quite honestly) enjoy that site far more than Mic B, for he was talking about writing utencils.

Sminty_Smeagol · 10-17-2002, 06:56 AM

Yeah I do believe it was the mesopatamians (sp?) who wrote in the clay... we did a unit on them in 6 grade.

Anyway, just a theory, but the Dwarves were obviously quite primitive. And have you noticed their alphabet? It's mostly rigid line formations for the letters. Probably because it would be difficult to carve/engrave a curve.

Mic B · 10-17-2002, 03:55 PM

Quick correction-

You said 'he'... I am a girl

No worries.

Falagar · 10-17-2002, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Anyway, just a theory, but the Dwarves were obviously quite primitive. And have you noticed their alphabet? It's mostly rigid line formations for the letters. Probably because it would be difficult to carve/engrave a curve.

Actually it was an Elf (Daeron) who made the alphabet that the Dwarves use, before the Ã±oldor arrived in ME.

markedel · 10-17-2002, 04:48 PM

And primitive is a stretch considering the awesome power of Moria or Nogrod and Belegost. They just prefered to carve runes-but they could write.

Sminty_Smeagol · 10-17-2002, 05:18 PM

By primitive I meant... their lifestyle sort of. They lived in tunnels dug in mountains (even though elaborate, a tunnel is a tunnel). They seemed to enjoy lots of meat (like me!), and their alphabet is not beautiful and elegant like Tengwar.

***RÃan*** · 10-17-2002, 07:08 PM

Hi Mic B - just a quick post with a LoTR reference, then off to soccer practice - in RoTK (Return of the King), Appendix E, section II (Writing) it refers to the Tengwar as "devised for writing with brush or pen", and the Cirth "mostly used only for scratched or incised inscriptions".

I'll try to think about writing references in the main body of LoTR during soccer practice

That's a good question, I've never thought of it before.

(BTW - great idea - combo writing implement and food stabber - write a letter, spear a chicken nugget; write another letter, stab a piece of broccoli.... just don't let the ketchup drip on your paper!)

samwise of the shire · 10-17-2002, 10:52 PM

Hi Mic B. Dont feel bad about being called a he or a boy. Everyone thought I was a boy until I told them otherwise. I picture the elves using brushes because I wrote down the Tengwar using a ball point pen and it ended up looking terrible. I picture the hobbits with goose feather pens but dwarves use chisels. Like I said Mic...Welcome to the Moot...enjoy your stay.
Cheers,
Sam

***RÃan*** · 10-18-2002, 12:14 AM

OK, after a quick flip-thru I found lots of references to writing (Bilbo's labels for presents at the going-away party, etc), but can't seem to find anything like "Elrond picked up his golden ballpoint pen and dashed off a note to Gandalf..." So I think probably the reference in the appendix is probably as good as you're going to find. But I'll keep an eye out, and I hope other people post if they find anything.

BTW, I just found out today that someone I've been posting back and forth with in another thread for quite some time, that I though was a male, is female - she had a male character for an avatar, and a male character name (remind you of anyone, Samwise of the Shire?

, so it wasn't a bad assumption on my part, although it was wrong! But it wasn't you, Samwise, it was someone else). My Entmoot name is the name of a lady in the Silmarillion whose name I always thought pretty, but she's a very minor character, so I thought people won't know if it's a male or female name. So I tried to make my avatar in feminine colors (I wrote RÃ*an in Tengwar using a pink marker and filled it with a purplish background color), but it came out not too pink with a kinda blue background. Oh well. Anyways, don't feel bad

Not that it matters really, as long as people are friendly and like Tolkien, but I still kind of like to know, just like I like to know approximate locations so I know when to look for people's posts (I check for East Coasters and Brits in the morning, etc).

Anyway, welcome again, and I'll stop rambling now. I suppose you can tell I'm female because sometimes I talk too much! (joke

)

10-16-2002, 06:48 PM	#1
Mic B Sapling Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8	What do the LoTR characters write with? Hi This is my first time on this message board. I am only halfway through reading FoTR, and so far I have not found an answer to my question: What do the characters in Lord of the Rings use to write with? Is it ever mentioned in the books? Thanks!! __________________ "You see how benevolent I can be when everybody just does what I tell them to do?"

10-16-2002, 07:05 PM	#2
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Tolkien invented several alphabets for the inhabitants of middle earth. Generally the feanorian alphabet-the tengwar was used for writing with ink. There was also a rune alphabet-the Cirth which was used for carving and also by dwarves for pen-writing. When you get to it check out the appendices of ROTK. They are useful. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

10-16-2002, 07:15 PM	#3
*Ben* Retired Ent Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 60,631	Do you mean their language, their alphabet, or writing utensil? __________________ ---Ben formerly known in the forums as bmilder Owner of The Tolkien Trail and Entmoot. Buy Entmoot shirts and mugs!

10-16-2002, 07:58 PM	#4
Mic B Sapling Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8	Their writing utensil __________________ "You see how benevolent I can be when everybody just does what I tell them to do?"

10-16-2002, 08:00 PM	#5
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Most likely a quill of some sort. __________________ â€œThe whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.â€ â€“Bertrand Russell

10-16-2002, 10:34 PM	#6
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	I'm guessing it kind of depends on the culture. The dwarves probably carved in stone with a chisel or something the majority of the time.

10-16-2002, 11:38 PM	#7
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Good question. Perhaps many in the West -- those without access to quills and parchment which many in Gondor and what was Arnor seemed to possess -- used something like the ancient stylus: something with a wedge-shaped blade at the end used for writing in clay; the clay tablets were put out in the Sun to dry. Or anyway I think that's what they were. The Mesopotamians used them I think. Maybe folk who used the Runes wrote them on such clay tablets with some sort of stylus-like utencil, when they wanted to write letters. Maybe. It would be an idea thing for people like the Galadhrim to do, in consideration of trees, only I don't think they would have had the recources. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ã‘Ã³lendil : 10-16-2002 at 11:40 PM.

10-17-2002, 12:35 AM	#9
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I thank you RÃ*an. I will (quite honestly) enjoy that site far more than Mic B, for he was talking about writing utencils. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

10-17-2002, 06:56 AM	#10
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	yeah Yeah I do believe it was the mesopatamians (sp?) who wrote in the clay... we did a unit on them in 6 grade. Anyway, just a theory, but the Dwarves were obviously quite primitive. And have you noticed their alphabet? It's mostly rigid line formations for the letters. Probably because it would be difficult to carve/engrave a curve.

10-17-2002, 03:55 PM	#11
Mic B Sapling Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8	Quick correction- You said 'he'... I am a girl No worries. __________________ "You see how benevolent I can be when everybody just does what I tell them to do?"

10-17-2002, 04:48 PM	#13
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	And primitive is a stretch considering the awesome power of Moria or Nogrod and Belegost. They just prefered to carve runes-but they could write. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

10-17-2002, 05:18 PM	#14
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	By primitive I meant... their lifestyle sort of. They lived in tunnels dug in mountains (even though elaborate, a tunnel is a tunnel). They seemed to enjoy lots of meat (like me!), and their alphabet is not beautiful and elegant like Tengwar.

10-17-2002, 07:08 PM	#15
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	Hi Mic B - just a quick post with a LoTR reference, then off to soccer practice - in RoTK (Return of the King), Appendix E, section II (Writing) it refers to the Tengwar as "devised for writing with brush or pen", and the Cirth "mostly used only for scratched or incised inscriptions". I'll try to think about writing references in the main body of LoTR during soccer practice That's a good question, I've never thought of it before. (BTW - great idea - combo writing implement and food stabber - write a letter, spear a chicken nugget; write another letter, stab a piece of broccoli.... just don't let the ketchup drip on your paper!) __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«?* Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

10-17-2002, 10:52 PM	#16
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	Hi Mic B. Dont feel bad about being called a he or a boy. Everyone thought I was a boy until I told them otherwise. I picture the elves using brushes because I wrote down the Tengwar using a ball point pen and it ended up looking terrible. I picture the hobbits with goose feather pens but dwarves use chisels. Like I said Mic...Welcome to the Moot...enjoy your stay. Cheers, Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

10-18-2002, 12:14 AM	#17
*RÃan* Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!) Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not where I want to be ... Posts: 15,254	OK, after a quick flip-thru I found lots of references to writing (Bilbo's labels for presents at the going-away party, etc), but can't seem to find anything like "Elrond picked up his golden ballpoint pen and dashed off a note to Gandalf..." So I think probably the reference in the appendix is probably as good as you're going to find. But I'll keep an eye out, and I hope other people post if they find anything. BTW, I just found out today that someone I've been posting back and forth with in another thread for quite some time, that I though was a male, is female - she had a male character for an avatar, and a male character name (remind you of anyone, Samwise of the Shire? , so it wasn't a bad assumption on my part, although it was wrong! But it wasn't you, Samwise, it was someone else). My Entmoot name is the name of a lady in the Silmarillion whose name I always thought pretty, but she's a very minor character, so I thought people won't know if it's a male or female name. So I tried to make my avatar in feminine colors (I wrote RÃan in Tengwar using a pink marker and filled it with a purplish background color), but it came out not too pink with a kinda blue background. Oh well. Anyways, don't feel bad Not that it matters really, as long as people are friendly and like Tolkien, but I still kind of like to know, just like I like to know approximate locations so I know when to look for people's posts (I check for East Coasters and Brits in the morning, etc). Anyway, welcome again, and I'll stop rambling now. I suppose you can tell I'm female because sometimes I talk too much! (joke ) __________________ . I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ã‘Ã¡ Ã«? Ã³Ãº Ã©Ã¤ Ã¯Ã¶Ã¼ Ã–Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® Ã§ Ã¥ â„¢ Ã¦ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lÃ³mÃ«! AurÃ« entuluva!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
write songs for your favorite characters!	mikey490	The One Ring Musical	3	12-09-2015 10:09 AM
HP Vs. LoTR	Pytt	Harry Potter	53	01-17-2011 01:33 AM
Writing using Tengwar characters	RÃan	Middle Earth	998	11-16-2010 05:30 PM
LOTR Discussion: Appendix A, parts 2 and 3	Forkbeard	LOTR Discussion Project	12	12-28-2007 07:10 AM
What LOtR characters you find irritating?	CrazySquirrel	Lord of the Rings Books	34	09-18-2005 12:47 AM