Politics in Sport

Janny · 03-10-2004, 04:55 PM

It is turn of the England cricket team to play in Zimbabwe. Last time the team refused to travel over concerns as to their safety. This time the sport's global governing body is threaten a fine of £1,000,000 if the team refuses to travel.
Well that's if they refuse to travel because of their moral disgust for Mugabe. If they claim the trip is dangerous then they won't necessarily be fined.
It seems that the fine (which would cause grea damage to quite an underfunded game) could be avoided with what appears to amount to a mummy's note from the government saying the team shouldn't travel.

Firstly, should it be a case that Zimbabwe be put into the international wilderness?
And secondly, is it the place for sports teams to follow their conscience or should they play where they are obliged to and leave politics to politicians?

Insidious Rex · 03-10-2004, 05:50 PM

sports ARE politics. Look at the olympics in the 70's and 80's. A boycott was a huge message to send. And after all, the killings in Munich in 72 (?) showed us justhow massive a political stage the olympics were to some people. Its impossible to ignore how politics effects sports in our respective cultures. But remember sports can also be used to help political situations as well. Look at the upcoming cricket matches between India and Pakistan. This wouldnt have been done before for fear of whole scale riots breaking out between the fans. Now its possibly one of the best means for healing between the common folk of each country. They are equally cricket crazy I hear.

Mercutio · 03-10-2004, 08:17 PM

Could you briefly describe the game of cricket for me? Thanks.

Insidious Rex · 03-10-2004, 10:24 PM

you talkin to me? you may want to ask someone from a different country. all i know is that it involves wickets and formal looking clothes and sometimes lasts months it seems.

Mercutio · 03-10-2004, 11:06 PM

I am talking to anyone who knows anything about it (that includes you!). Everything is something.

The Gaffer · 03-11-2004, 04:47 AM

Cricket is a bit like baseball, in that there's a ball which is bowled and a person with a bat that tries to hit it and make runs. But that's where the similarity ends.

The main difference is that a game of cricket can last for five days and still end in a draw. It requires huge amounts of concentration: a worthy batsman, for example, will have to bat for many hours at a time.

Previous India v Pakistan matches have ended up with mass rioting, so hopefully we'll get no repeat of that.

The thing about this Zimbabwe tour is that the fine will be waived if the British government forbids the team from going, so in this case, they actually WANT the politicians to interfere.

Mercutio · 03-11-2004, 07:46 AM

Thanks. Sounds fun (really).

sun-star · 03-11-2004, 11:15 AM

Wasn't this an issue a few months ago as well (last cricket season I suppose)? What did they decide to do then?

And for your first question - yes, Zimbabwe should be in the political wilderness. Mugabe is evil

The Gaffer · 03-11-2004, 02:10 PM

It was in the World Cup, and England were docked points because they (and, IIRC, Australia) refused to travel to Zimbabwe. It kinda backfired because this meant that Zimbabwe got extra points and qualified for the semi final where otherwise they would (probably) have been knocked out.

Mercutio, you are right. Cricket is the epitome of civilised sport: hugely technical in its execution and utterly baffling in the complexity of its rules. And they stop for tea.

For example, a batsman can be out if the ball hits his body and would have gone on to hit the wicket ("leg before wicket"). But not if it hits his bat before it hits his body. And not if the ball makes contact with his body on the off side (i.e. further away from the side of the wicket the batsman is standing) of an imaginary line drawn between the two wickets, unless he didn't even try to hit the ball at all, in which case he is out. Got that? And the umpire has to decide all this in a split second with the bowler and fielders screaming HOOOWWWZAAAAAAT? And there's a completely different rule for if the ball hits the batsman on the other side of the wicket (the side nearest to where he stands).

And any game that you can drink and smoke WHILE you're playing it has got to be pretty good. Oh, and Sri Lanka were world champions for a while, so that's also cool (I see they're giving the Aussies a bit of a run for their money at the moment).

Janny · 03-11-2004, 03:48 PM

Yeah cricket is the epitomy of Englishness... in terms of tea consumption anyway. It's no longer the case though that it's old guys smoking and drinking at the same time, the Gaffer may be misleading you a little there!

However beerness... beerness? interesting freudian slip... warm beer and packed lunches are still vital to the proper viewing of the game.
The England supporters abroad, however, adopt the name 'the barmy army' where the only rule for membership is you drink a little and sing a bit. It's less threatening than it used to be.
Of course there was a rival faction to the barmy army. Some interesting people from Yorkshire got bored with it and formed the Farmy Army, where to be a part you had to wear a sheep costume (and presumably drink a little more).
But the fact remains that cricket, in its refined nature, should surely make decisions such as this for the benefit of the... i don't know how to say it. Maybe a sport as pure as cricket should be making decisions like this.

Insidious Rex makes a good point too about the Moscow and LA Olympics, I don't really know anything about the Munich games apart from that it was in 72. But that was during the Cold War, is it different now? Sport couldn't trigger a war between the two great superpowers because there's only one now.

The Gaffer · 03-12-2004, 04:56 AM

At the 72 Olympics a group of Israeli athletes were murdered by terrorists.

If it was me, I wouldn't want to go because of how it "normalises" the situation, but I'd also want the government's backing so as to avoid the £1m fine from the sport's governing body.

By the way, cricket's "pure as the driven snow" reputation took a bit of a knock after all those match-fixing scandals.

Janny · 03-12-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Gaffer
By the way, cricket's "pure as the driven snow" reputation took a bit of a knock after all those match-fixing scandals.

Yeah ok. The Cronje thing wasn't good, but the sport is still perceived to be played by English gents on a sunny afternoon at Lords. I mean it is seen as clean whereas Athletics and football (UK) aren't.

03-10-2004, 04:55 PM	#1
Janny The Blobbit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...) Posts: 1,596	Politics in Sport It is turn of the England cricket team to play in Zimbabwe. Last time the team refused to travel over concerns as to their safety. This time the sport's global governing body is threaten a fine of £1,000,000 if the team refuses to travel. Well that's if they refuse to travel because of their moral disgust for Mugabe. If they claim the trip is dangerous then they won't necessarily be fined. It seems that the fine (which would cause grea damage to quite an underfunded game) could be avoided with what appears to amount to a mummy's note from the government saying the team shouldn't travel. Firstly, should it be a case that Zimbabwe be put into the international wilderness? And secondly, is it the place for sports teams to follow their conscience or should they play where they are obliged to and leave politics to politicians? __________________ Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton.

03-10-2004, 05:50 PM	#2
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	sports ARE politics. Look at the olympics in the 70's and 80's. A boycott was a huge message to send. And after all, the killings in Munich in 72 (?) showed us justhow massive a political stage the olympics were to some people. Its impossible to ignore how politics effects sports in our respective cultures. But remember sports can also be used to help political situations as well. Look at the upcoming cricket matches between India and Pakistan. This wouldnt have been done before for fear of whole scale riots breaking out between the fans. Now its possibly one of the best means for healing between the common folk of each country. They are equally cricket crazy I hear. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

03-10-2004, 08:17 PM	#3
Mercutio Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Narnia Posts: 1,656	Could you briefly describe the game of cricket for me? Thanks. __________________ Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries.

03-10-2004, 10:24 PM	#4
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	you talkin to me? you may want to ask someone from a different country. all i know is that it involves wickets and formal looking clothes and sometimes lasts months it seems. __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

03-10-2004, 11:06 PM	#5
Mercutio Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Narnia Posts: 1,656	I am talking to anyone who knows anything about it (that includes you!). Everything is something. __________________ Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries.

03-11-2004, 04:47 AM	#6
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	Cricket is a bit like baseball, in that there's a ball which is bowled and a person with a bat that tries to hit it and make runs. But that's where the similarity ends. The main difference is that a game of cricket can last for five days and still end in a draw. It requires huge amounts of concentration: a worthy batsman, for example, will have to bat for many hours at a time. Previous India v Pakistan matches have ended up with mass rioting, so hopefully we'll get no repeat of that. The thing about this Zimbabwe tour is that the fine will be waived if the British government forbids the team from going, so in this case, they actually WANT the politicians to interfere.

03-11-2004, 07:46 AM	#7
Mercutio Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Narnia Posts: 1,656	Thanks. Sounds fun (really). __________________ Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries.

03-11-2004, 11:15 AM	#8
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Wasn't this an issue a few months ago as well (last cricket season I suppose)? What did they decide to do then? And for your first question - yes, Zimbabwe should be in the political wilderness. Mugabe is evil __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

03-11-2004, 02:10 PM	#9
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	It was in the World Cup, and England were docked points because they (and, IIRC, Australia) refused to travel to Zimbabwe. It kinda backfired because this meant that Zimbabwe got extra points and qualified for the semi final where otherwise they would (probably) have been knocked out. Mercutio, you are right. Cricket is the epitome of civilised sport: hugely technical in its execution and utterly baffling in the complexity of its rules. And they stop for tea. For example, a batsman can be out if the ball hits his body and would have gone on to hit the wicket ("leg before wicket"). But not if it hits his bat before it hits his body. And not if the ball makes contact with his body on the off side (i.e. further away from the side of the wicket the batsman is standing) of an imaginary line drawn between the two wickets, unless he didn't even try to hit the ball at all, in which case he is out. Got that? And the umpire has to decide all this in a split second with the bowler and fielders screaming HOOOWWWZAAAAAAT? And there's a completely different rule for if the ball hits the batsman on the other side of the wicket (the side nearest to where he stands). And any game that you can drink and smoke WHILE you're playing it has got to be pretty good. Oh, and Sri Lanka were world champions for a while, so that's also cool (I see they're giving the Aussies a bit of a run for their money at the moment).

03-11-2004, 03:48 PM	#10
Janny The Blobbit Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...) Posts: 1,596	Yeah cricket is the epitomy of Englishness... in terms of tea consumption anyway. It's no longer the case though that it's old guys smoking and drinking at the same time, the Gaffer may be misleading you a little there! However beerness... beerness? interesting freudian slip... warm beer and packed lunches are still vital to the proper viewing of the game. The England supporters abroad, however, adopt the name 'the barmy army' where the only rule for membership is you drink a little and sing a bit. It's less threatening than it used to be. Of course there was a rival faction to the barmy army. Some interesting people from Yorkshire got bored with it and formed the Farmy Army, where to be a part you had to wear a sheep costume (and presumably drink a little more). But the fact remains that cricket, in its refined nature, should surely make decisions such as this for the benefit of the... i don't know how to say it. Maybe a sport as pure as cricket should be making decisions like this. Insidious Rex makes a good point too about the Moscow and LA Olympics, I don't really know anything about the Munich games apart from that it was in 72. But that was during the Cold War, is it different now? Sport couldn't trigger a war between the two great superpowers because there's only one now. __________________ Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton.

03-12-2004, 04:56 AM	#11
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	At the 72 Olympics a group of Israeli athletes were murdered by terrorists. If it was me, I wouldn't want to go because of how it "normalises" the situation, but I'd also want the government's backing so as to avoid the £1m fine from the sport's governing body. By the way, cricket's "pure as the driven snow" reputation took a bit of a knock after all those match-fixing scandals.

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