The Singers Thread

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I'm in a bit of trouble... maybe not actually trouble, we'll have to see how my voice holds up.

They tell us to mark when we're rehearsing, but the second we get in with a coach all they want is MORE MORE MORE MORE. So far I'm okay, but of course this is only day two (three if you count the sing-in). I'm just trying to keep everything SUPER open and not push for the volume...

Support, Support, Support (i know i'm just telling you something you already know ).

I have to figure out NOW how to sing with all of the energy they want without actually using my full voice.

Something that works is to make sure you have really crisp diction. It adds a bit more energy and 'bite' to the sound without using more voice. Oh, and, support (did i say that already..? ).

I am really treating this more like an acting camp though, because that's the main focus. Of course we're singing, and they're teaching us how to phrase... but the thing is that my voice teacher can fix my voice. I mean I KNOW he can. So that's for when I get back home... my bad habits will eventually pass, I'm not trying to fix anything at the moment. I'm working entirely on the interpretations, singing through the phrases, and the physical acting.

Yes, there's a time and a place for everything, of course - get whatever you can out of this experience and work with the technique you do have, which you can always keep building upon later.

It's just INCREDIBLE. When you get with someone else who's as into it as you are the chemistry is just breathtaking. I had one girl jokingly suggest she should shove me (as Papageno) when she told me "do not lie any more!" and then chase me across the room. So I told her to actually do it, and we got SO into it! She just shoved me backwards across the room, then I was backing up again after that because she kept jabbing me in the chest as I sang, and I really had something to work with.

Haha! It sounds like you've had a lot of fun. I love the Magic Flute!

Two things I never really realized that one particular coach is just busting my chops for is that when I sing I back off the note slightly in the middle of phrases, and also sometimes right after an attack. ESPECIALLY when I speak a line, I tend to let my inflections and my energy go down, so I was having to just restructure EVERYTHING about the way I speak to read the lines believably.

Sometimes no matter what you do, some people are just hard to please. Do the best you can, but something about the way you're explaining this (ie. "restructuring everything about the way you speak") sounds disconcerting.

It's only a beginning, but at least I know which direction to try to head in now. The coaches are all fantastic... I am getting so many little ideas of how to be truly musical instead of just standing and throwing out my aria. I hope I can do this camp again because I know now that I was not prepared enough for it... because I didn't know -how- to prepare properly. Next time I'll be able to get more out of it because I can leap in feet first with some idea of what to expect.

This is like blunt force trauma opera style, and I freaking LOVE it!

Heheh I've been in workshops like this for musical theater, but not for opera. Enjoy it, learn lots!

[Voronwen]

OK this is just a random 'happy' about singing....

Today during practice, i don't know what happened, but i had some sort of breakthrough. I had big, resonant, nearly effortless high D's and E's I wish i knew what was happening like this on a 'good day'... and i wish my teacher were not on vacation!!!

[Voronwen]

Tessar, How is the opera workshop going?

I was talking with someone else who knows about singing, who has heard me, and knows my range - she said i might be something called a "lyric coloratura". I thought a soprano was either a lyric or a coloratura. I guess technically, one can be both?

Of course, you haven't heard me so i'm not asking for your opinion Just wondering whether you've heard of this before. Do you know of any singers i could listen to that would fall into this category? I consider Fleming a "lyric" and Dessay a "coloratura" but i can't imagine who might be called both. I'd just want to hear an example.

Who knows, it might explain once and for all why some teachers have called me a lyric soprano and others have at times thought i was a coloratura.

[Tessar]

Well, one thing they've mentioned in the workshop is that you don't call yourself a soprano unless you have the high notes, or a mezzo if you don't have the low notes... Similarly, I expect that you would not call yourself a lyric coloratura unless you can sing all of the coloratura -and- lyric rep. If you want to specialize as a coloratura then I would personally leave the 'lyric' off.

Fleming has formerly sung coloratura rep., although I believe she now sticks to purely lyric stuff, but she doesn't call herself a coloratura. It's just something she did... so if you were to sing some lyric rep but mainly be in the coloratura rep then I would expect that you'd probably stick to calling yourself a coloratura.



The workshop's going great... lots of things to think about, but I have very, very little free time and certainly almost none to actually sit down and write stuff out. I will be abuzz with new topics as soon as this thing is over, though .

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Well, one thing they've mentioned in the workshop is that you don't call yourself a soprano unless you have the high notes, or a mezzo if you don't have the low notes... Similarly, I expect that you would not call yourself a lyric coloratura unless you can sing all of the coloratura -and- lyric rep. If you want to specialize as a coloratura then I would personally leave the 'lyric' off.

This makes more sense! I can't imagine the voice that could sing ALL of the lyric and coloratura repertoire! That almost seems incongruous.

Fleming has formerly sung coloratura rep., although I believe she now sticks to purely lyric stuff, but she doesn't call herself a coloratura. It's just something she did... so if you were to sing some lyric rep but mainly be in the coloratura rep then I would expect that you'd probably stick to calling yourself a coloratura.

I definitely do not sing everything Fleming sings! I am much closer to 'coloratura' than i am to 'lyric', i think, just based on what i sing well - the Mozart concert arias, oodles of Baroque stuff that moves, things that sit high in tessitura. Most of the standard 'lyric' stuff sits a bit low to be vibrant in my voice, with a few exceptions (mostly in Mozart). My voice is too light for most of what Fleming sings. Maybe i have gone with 'lyric' as a copout for not solidifying the technique for those high E's and F's But, i am getting there. I've recently found a placement for them that is amazing - seemingly effortless, it just feels light and without strain, and, like you've said, "with ease" For me it's a matter of not dragging weight up from the bottom. For a coloratura-ish type, i have a strong chest voice. This is probably due to a lifetime of lower-than-optimal speaking habits But at least now that i have found that placement, it feels weightless and amazingly reliable (i can get the E and F every day, as long as i'm accessing them properly), my voice just feels less encumbered.

I think perhaps my friend may have said "lyric coloratura" because i can sing either like a lyric or like a coloratura either fuller or lighter/higher. My registers are connected so it's not that. But now since i've found this higher/lighter placement, which feels like nothing at all but is still connected (if that makes sense), i think i may have discovered where my voice "should be". So perhaps all those people who have said "coloratura" were right after all. Time will tell!

The workshop's going great... lots of things to think about, but I have very, very little free time and certainly almost none to actually sit down and write stuff out. I will be abuzz with new topics as soon as this thing is over, though .

I am looking forward to hearing all about it!

[Voronwen]

Hmm, i found this definition of "lyric coloratura" from Wikipedia (not always the best source, of course but it was interesting):

Lyric coloratura soprano — A very agile light voice with a high upper extension, capable of fast vocal coloratura. Light coloraturas have a range of approximately middle C (C4) to "high F" (F6) with some coloratura sopranos being able to sing somewhat higher or lower.

[Voronwen]

Tessar! Sorry for all these posts in a row (i'm giving you way too much to respond to when you get back, i know!) but i've got more happy voice news!

I've been working with some standard coloratura music today. I just sang through the B section of Queen of the Night's O zittre nicht about 13 times - each time, the F was right there where i needed her !!!!! In fact, the F isn't even the hardest part!

Oh i am loving this technical breakthrough!!!

[Tessar]

I am so happy for you!!!! Congratulations!! I really can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear about your breakthrough.

Zittre nicht is probably my favorite Queen of the Night aria. I mean the big Holle Racht is fun to hear, but I don't think anything beats the coloratura sections of O Zittre Nicht.

About the lyric coloratura thing--you will, of course, have to do what you feel is most appropriate for your voice. In my opinion, I think 'lyric coloratura' might be a bit confusing. Then you could have people thinking, "Wait, is she a lyric or is she a coloratura?" I believe that if you are going to label yourself you should do it as simply as possible.

Does it even make much of a difference? Whether you call yourself a "lyric coloratura" or a "light coloratura lyric soprano with an extension to the F who also sang lyric rep in college and did that one subrette aria at the piano bar last Friday" does it change your rep.?

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I am so happy for you!!!! Congratulations!! I really can't tell you how happy it makes me to hear about your breakthrough.

Thank you! I am ecstatic over it. Now i want to hear all about YOUR news!

Zittre nicht is probably my favorite Queen of the Night aria. I mean the big Holle Racht is fun to hear, but I don't think anything beats the coloratura sections of O Zittre Nicht.

It's definitely FUN!

About the lyric coloratura thing--you will, of course, have to do what you feel is most appropriate for your voice. In my opinion, I think 'lyric coloratura' might be a bit confusing. Then you could have people thinking, "Wait, is she a lyric or is she a coloratura?" I believe that if you are going to label yourself you should do it as simply as possible.

I totally hear you on the 'confusing' bit! It was confusing to me, too, hence why i had to look it up!

Does it even make much of a difference? Whether you call yourself a "lyric coloratura" or a "light coloratura lyric soprano with an extension to the F who also sang lyric rep in college and did that one subrette aria at the piano bar last Friday" does it change your rep.?

Ha! So many labels! And i'm always hearing of more of them! It's true, though - whatever it's technically called, the description of the "light high agile soprano voice with an extension to high F" is the one that fits me. I suppose what you do with that voice (or any voice) is up to who can use you for what, and in what setting. That can be coloratura or soubrette or light-lyric soprano, for me. I think all three of those so-called labels can apply, depending on what i am singing!

How is the modern opera coming? I know that kind of music can be a pain! It's not quite the same thing, but i won't forget the time in college when four of us were assigned to the quartet from Der Rosenkavalier (i was the Sophie). Boy was that hard to learn!

[Varnafindë]

Congratulations to both of you!

Which is the most famous of the arias of Queen of the Night? Meaning - which is the one I'm likely to have heard on the radio as a single item? I think I've only heard one, and if coloratura is what I think it is (again, a text board isn't always the best for these discussions ), there's plenty of that in it. Is that the one you're singing? Wow ...

[Voronwen]

Thanks, Varnafindë!

The very famous Queen of the Night aria is Der Holle Rache. That's not the one - i was singing her less-known aria, O zittre nicht. I think out of the two, O zittre is easier.

Here's a clip for you She starts the coloratura section at 3:45.

Yes, "coloratura" is a high, fast, ornate passage of singing. A "coloratura soprano" is one who is capable of singing this stuff. Usually this music requires the extension to high Eb, E, or F. This one goes to the F.

[Tessar]

Tonight during my dress rehearsal I got a complement from a very hard-to-please director who has not seen me act before, so I was grateful for the complement. I've worked particularly hard on that scene because the person who is directing it has given me so much help. It's the Figaro duet.

Geeze. I really just wish I could have a class like this at my school, because this is all of the technical stuff that no one ever bothers to tell you. Things as 'simple' as "start your movement just before the musical phrase begins," or, "gesture at what you're talking about just before you actually say what it is."

The biggest thing I'm having to work to break is that I want to make double handed 'expressive' gestures... which of course just come off as silly and comical rather than expressing what I want to show.


The greatest encouragement I've received is to learn that someone with a voice like mine CAN sing at the Met... but I have to learn to become a fantastic actor. The coach pointed out that it doesn't matter whether you have an okay voice or an extraordinary voice. Once you get to the Met EVERYONE can use what they've been given to its maximum potential. The deciding factor is whether you can make people believe what you sing.

I feel as though I'm getting new doorways opened to me for success. Before I thought I worked hard... and now I know that not only was I not working hard, I didn't know HOW to work hard and effectively. All of the rehearsal and practice techniques that I've learned for memorizing and performing music have helped me SO much already and I can say with some confidence that I will probably never be the same musician that I used to be.

For instance last Friday I practiced some music for a half hour and I improved to a degree that would have taken me at least an hour and a half previously.

One of the coaches has also helped me with my posture... I'm concerned because I don't think I'm doing it totally right, but basically she took my (hard worked for!) ability to expand/float my ribs when I sing and then jammed them up an inch higher so that they actually stay fully off my lungs and it seems to allow me to support much better. She called it the 'greyhound' position. I'd been putting my sternum up too high and it was causing my ribs to collapse just enough to cause a difference.

I'm very excited to get back to work on my voice when I get back home on Monday and have a lesson on Wednesday, because the biggest thing I've discovered is that the technique I have perfected is the technique I'll be using. All of the experimental stuff my teacher and I were working on does nothing for me when I'm having to watch the director out of the corner of one eye, keep my mind on my blocking, be aware of the set around me, listen to the music, sing my part, AND keep half an eye on the pianist to make sure that I'm not behind his beat. It's only the stuff that I've perfected that works automatically.

It seems to be a common thing, too... some of the girls are WONDERFUL singers when they're practicing in a room before they go on stage. But the minute they have to focus on everything else that's also going on their voice gets breathy and loses its focus and placement.

So much more to talk about... but now I have to hit the hay because it's almost 2 a.m. here and I have rehearsal at 11:30 tomorrow. I probably should've gone straight to bed when we got home an hour and a half ago, but I needed some time to unwind.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Tonight during my dress rehearsal I got a complement from a very hard-to-please director who has not seen me act before, so I was grateful for the complement. I've worked particularly hard on that scene because the person who is directing it has given me so much help. It's the Figaro duet.

Wonderful!

Geeze. I really just wish I could have a class like this at my school, because this is all of the technical stuff that no one ever bothers to tell you. Things as 'simple' as "start your movement just before the musical phrase begins," or, "gesture at what you're talking about just before you actually say what it is."

I'm so glad you're getting this! Most have to pick it up through experience.

The greatest encouragement I've received is to learn that someone with a voice like mine CAN sing at the Met... but I have to learn to become a fantastic actor. The coach pointed out that it doesn't matter whether you have an okay voice or an extraordinary voice. Once you get to the Met EVERYONE can use what they've been given to its maximum potential. The deciding factor is whether you can make people believe what you sing.

Acting is so important! We tend to overlook it while on the quest for "perfect technique" But truly, it's what sets a singer apart.

I feel as though I'm getting new doorways opened to me for success. Before I thought I worked hard... and now I know that not only was I not working hard, I didn't know HOW to work hard and effectively. All of the rehearsal and practice techniques that I've learned for memorizing and performing music have helped me SO much already and I can say with some confidence that I will probably never be the same musician that I used to be.

A teacher of mine used to say "Work smarter, not harder" It's so true. But it does take guidance. I'm so happy that you're getting that! Again, not everyone does.

One of the coaches has also helped me with my posture... I'm concerned because I don't think I'm doing it totally right, but basically she took my (hard worked for!) ability to expand/float my ribs when I sing and then jammed them up an inch higher so that they actually stay fully off my lungs and it seems to allow me to support much better. She called it the 'greyhound' position. I'd been putting my sternum up too high and it was causing my ribs to collapse just enough to cause a difference.

Isn't it amazing how tiny things like that can make a difference! I can relate, somewhat. I studied dance for years, and always had "good posture". But the posture (specifically relating to the ribcage) for optimal support in singing is slightly different. It is definitely more about having the ribcage supported in such a way that it feels as if you're holding it up, just slightly, and more open (i know i'm not explaining that very well, but i'm sure you know what i mean!). My teacher has worked with me on this too. She told me to imagine wearing a strapless gown that was ever so slightly too loose, and holding my ribcage in such a way that the gown couldn't fall off!

I'm very excited to get back to work on my voice when I get back home on Monday and have a lesson on Wednesday, because the biggest thing I've discovered is that the technique I have perfected is the technique I'll be using.

I am so happy for you, Tessar! Oh, this is such wonderful news! It's definitely not every singer who gets to this point at such a young age. Some singers, despite decades of study, never even get there at all! Congratulations!!!

It seems to be a common thing, too... some of the girls are WONDERFUL singers when they're practicing in a room before they go on stage. But the minute they have to focus on everything else that's also going on their voice gets breathy and loses its focus and placement.

See, this is exactly why it's important for good technique to become 'second nature', like breathing. Then in an instance where you're learning blocking, etc, you can put it on automatic pilot. Well, almost.

So much more to talk about...

I am so happy to hear about your progress. I can't wait to hear how the performances go!

[Voronwen]

Vocal randomness: Is it just *wrong* that i've discovered i can hum on high E (E6) ..????

[Tessar]

Nah. I know some girls who can do stuff like that. The voice is weird... for instance I can lip bubble up to the Tenor C, and then once I've done that I can do a vocal 'stretch' thing up to this really nasal, tense Tenor C... but it's not my 'real' voice, it's just a vocal stretch I can make (which I haven't done in months because I'm sure it's not healthy).


I sang two of my scenes today. The first one was the one act opera, Gallantry, and I got SO many wonderful comments about it. Apparently I was pretty funny, which is such a relief . I pushed my voice a little hard though, and I'm afraid to listen to the recording I got of it because I'm afraid I may not have sounded all that great, particularly on the F's.

This morning though I was warming up to some pretty awesome F's, if I may say so myself. I feel like my voice is settling a little easier into the higher tessitura than it was two weeks ago.

Then I did Figaro, and I think the voice was pretty okay, but I was very disappointed with myself as far as the acting went. I felt like for the amount of help I received I should have done a better job of overcoming some of my quirks (like collapsing my ribs, gesturing with both hands, etc.) but oh well. I'll do better next time I'm on stage, I hope.

Tomorrow I get to do Papageno, which I'm VERY excited for but I'm also very sad because the wonderful, wonderful director for it had to leave tonight to get to the next job she's directing and she wont get to see me to it. She said to e-mail her and let her know how it goes, so I definitely will.

Now SHE is a character. Apparently she got her master's degree on a full ride from some conservatory as a mezzo. She specialized in early music like Purcell and Josquen[sp], THEN she got a job singing opera arias on a cruise ship back before it was a common thing to have that... so she was sort of one of those 'pioneer' entertainers. She said that she didn't have much of a voice, but her big thing was that she had presence and I can believe it.

During rehearsals she was always so sweet and friendly, and seemed very mild-mannered and a little whacky... but you ALWAYS noticed when she entered a room. She just draws attention by her presence... I don't know how, but she's one of those people that if she started singing you wouldn't be able to look away even if her voice wasn't the best you'd ever heard.

I truly hope that I get to work with her again, because she is just WONDERFUL .


Good God, I can't BELIEVE it's only been two weeks. It feels like a lifetime. I don't want to go back to my lame school now where people are unmotivated and the teachers are (I hate to say it, but it's true...) not as good as the directors at the workshop. It makes me wish I were good enough to go to a better school on a scholarship.

You know what I LOVE, though? Back home when I tell people that I'm getting an education degree as a safety net, and also because I do love to teach, I get a lot of, "That's ridiculous, if you want to perform get a PERFORMANCE degree." Where as here when I say that people unanimously have said that it's a really smart idea, and in fact quite a few of them are doing the same thing. Especially the 'older' singers (27+ years old) will tell me that it's a smart thing to do because they know how hard it is to make a living as a performer.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Tessar

You know what I LOVE, though? Back home when I tell people that I'm getting an education degree as a safety net, and also because I do love to teach, I get a lot of, "That's ridiculous, if you want to perform get a PERFORMANCE degree." Where as here when I say that people unanimously have said that it's a really smart idea, and in fact quite a few of them are doing the same thing. Especially the 'older' singers (27+ years old) will tell me that it's a smart thing to do because they know how hard it is to make a living as a performer.

If they think that a performance degree will automatically get you a performance job, they probably know too little about the entertainment "industry" - while the people you've met here, do know something about it.

I know a guy who tried to become a ballet dancer - he did dancing during his school years, and he was probably good enough to perform at the opera (his class did, occasionally). But by the time he was to go to college, he had realised that he wasn't up among the very best, and in Norway, only those very few top male dancers can expect to do it for a living. He then trained as a physiotherapist, and later as a school teacher. Probably wise of him.

[Tessar]

It's sort of tough... because there is a sense of compromise. I recognize the fact that I might never be good enough to fulfill my dream... but it's balanced out with the determination that nothing is going to stop me from trying.

Plus there is the simple fact that some people get into the business and after a few years realize that they just can't handle the life, so they have to find a way to get out of it. If that happens to me, then I'll have my way out (hopefully!) without needing to feel desperate.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Nah. I know some girls who can do stuff like that. The voice is weird... for instance I can lip bubble up to the Tenor C, and then once I've done that I can do a vocal 'stretch' thing up to this really nasal, tense Tenor C... but it's not my 'real' voice, it's just a vocal stretch I can make (which I haven't done in months because I'm sure it's not healthy).

OK, phew! I was feeling a bit like a freak! I could always lip-trill up there but not hum. Maybe it's just becoming more flexible in that range since my breakthrough. I lip-trilled to the G6 yesterday and even a bit higher I'm scaring myself, but it's fun!

I don't really understand what you mean by this 'stretch' thing but no, it doesn't sound like it's healthy. Ouch! I assure you that's not what i'm doing, though. Whatever i'm doing just feels very light and without tension or pressure at all.

I need to step out for now but i'll respond later to the rest of your message!

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I sang two of my scenes today. The first one was the one act opera, Gallantry, and I got SO many wonderful comments about it. Apparently I was pretty funny, which is such a relief . I pushed my voice a little hard though, and I'm afraid to listen to the recording I got of it because I'm afraid I may not have sounded all that great, particularly on the F's.

Was this a 'performance workshop'/master-class situation, where the other students (and teacher) watch and then critique one another? Those can be nervewracking (but enlightening ). Being in tune with how your voice and body react to performance is crucial, and you may already be there. But it can't hurt to always keep track of what's going on for you physically during a performance. It might just be a simple matter of knowing what to expect (flutters? support not as solid? thinking too much about technique? etc etc, just some examples, we all have them) and being prepared for it. Learn from your recording and make mental notes.

This morning though I was warming up to some pretty awesome F's, if I may say so myself. I feel like my voice is settling a little easier into the higher tessitura than it was two weeks ago.

Excellent!!!

Tomorrow I get to do Papageno, which I'm VERY excited for but I'm also very sad because the wonderful, wonderful director for it had to leave tonight to get to the next job she's directing and she wont get to see me to it. She said to e-mail her and let her know how it goes, so I definitely will.

See if you can get someone to take a video of the scene. Then of course, we'd want to see it, too.

She said that she didn't have much of a voice, but her big thing was that she had presence and I can believe it.

So true. We can put in so much work, sing our arias perfectly, be as polished as anything, possess talent, and if we don't have charisma, we're dead in the water. And it's not something we can 'learn' to have. I think it takes an extroverted personality. That's definitely not me, but if it's you, you may just have a chance.

It makes me wish I were good enough to go to a better school on a scholarship.

Don't give up! You can always transfer schools. If you're not entirely happy where you are, keep auditioning. You never know!

You know what I LOVE, though? Back home when I tell people that I'm getting an education degree as a safety net, and also because I do love to teach, I get a lot of, "That's ridiculous, if you want to perform get a PERFORMANCE degree." Where as here when I say that people unanimously have said that it's a really smart idea, and in fact quite a few of them are doing the same thing. Especially the 'older' singers (27+ years old) will tell me that it's a smart thing to do because they know how hard it is to make a living as a performer.

You're doing the right thing. I started as a music major (vocal performance) and then switched it to my minor halfway through, focusing on other interests. I wanted more substance in my education (that sounds so bad, sorry!) and there was a certain intellectual fulfillment that i was looking for that endless hours of sight-singing classes and university choir were not giving me. But that's a whole new can of worms.

[Tessar]

I'll write more later, but one thing that's been on my mind was probably the saddest moment of the entire workshop.

During cleanup I was helping one of the acting teachers carry a heavy coat-rack back to the room it had come from, and in the course of the conversation I mentioned that she still had a really big voice. She laughed and said, "Yes, I used to."

I asked what sort of rep. she sang, and this look of intense sadness came over her and she said, "Well, I used to have a very rich soprano voice, but there isn't much left of it. I was a great Musetta when I was young."

Mind you this woman is at least 70 (if not older), but it was incredibly sad the way she said it. I didn't really know what to say, so I changed the subject.