The Singers Thread

[Pip]

Don't worry Tessar, that ensemble class won't deter me from other voice lessons. I actually took some lessons with a friend once who sang in the opera, then I ran out of money, then I got a job and ran out of time. But I've been in other groups (i.e. Colorado Chilren's Chorale) that, while they weren't one on one were helpful with basic theory such as reading music well and learning basic technique for singing.

[Voronwen]

Wow, Tessar! It sounds like you're doing a great job. I can see you becoming a good teacher one day!

Originally Posted by Tessar

Teaching an adult is always so different from teaching a kid! With a kid you usually don't have to do much to get them using good technique, but you have to do it without actually explaining any of what you're doing!! They don't usually understand things like 'make a bright sound'. Where as with an adult it seems to take a little longer to get the technique going, but you can explain things to them very easily.

I have never tried teaching children as i am rather clueless when it comes to communicating with them , so i can't agree or disagree with that. With an adult, or young adult, you're dealing with un-doing more years of bad vocal habits So that stands to reason.

[Tessar]

That's great! Sight reading music is a very valuable skill . I'm glad you got to experience a children's chorale... usually those are a lot of fun.


I've been thinking about it, and I think I need to look at my music for the workshop with fresh eyes. It's in ten days, and I know the music but I still tend to want to sing the vowels nebulously... I think I need to go in and really refocus on the vowels, particularly double vowel words. I tend to get the first vowel correct and then the second one gets a little mushed.

I would rather go to the effort now than deal with two weeks of trying to correct them while I should be focusing on other aspects of the workshop. I'm not sure if I'll really be able to do it in time, but it's worth a try.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I've been thinking about it, and I think I need to look at my music for the workshop with fresh eyes. It's in ten days, and I know the music but I still tend to want to sing the vowels nebulously... I think I need to go in and really refocus on the vowels, particularly double vowel words. I tend to get the first vowel correct and then the second one gets a little mushed.

I say go for it You just might surprise yourself with all the progress you've been making!

[Tessar]

I really feel like it might make a difference if I can do it... The thing I've noticed is that the really, really great singers don't mess around when it comes to vowels. They just go straight to them like a laser pointer. The singers that end up sounding messy don't always get to the vowel as fast, or sometimes they aren't on quite the right vowel.

It's a ton of work though . I'm sitting up late in bed right now, going through the figaro music and marking every word with what I'm assuming is the right vowel. I'll try singing through it again tomorrow slowly and see if I've made the right vowel choices.

Stupid english . I almost wish we were doing the arias in Italian, but I guess this is a good learning experience.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Stupid english . I almost wish we were doing the arias in Italian, but I guess this is a good learning experience.

Oh my?! You're doing everything for the workshop in English?

That will definitely force you to work on vowels!

I was just singing through some Handel in English this morning (Iphis' aria from Jephtha)... i can definitely say that singing in one's native tongue (assuming that is the case, of course!) points out a lot of things!

I always felt Italian vowels were "easy", or at least straightforward, but that may have to do with the fact that it was the first language other than English that i sang in as i was beginning training. To this day it's my best, along with Latin (very similar vowels). French vowels are so muddy for singing and German is even worse. To this day i have placement issues with the "eu" vowel combinations in French and the German umlaut. The 'pure' vowels of Italian and Latin just work so much better for me. It's funny, you'd think for a native English speaker it would be the other way around!

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

Oh my?! You're doing everything for the workshop in English?

Yes... not everyone is, but I suspect that he's giving us first-timers the english versions because he expects the foreign language singers to have everything word-for-word translated into english, to know all the words (or close enough), and to IPA out their stuff. I suspect he doesn't want to scare off the new-comers, and of course he doesn't know how much effort we're willing to put in before he's even met us, so he doesn't want to give us something too challenging.

Focusing on the vowels is reaaaaally helping. Particularly going in and making sure that I'm actually getting all the way onto 'oo' and 'ee' vowels instead of making the right mouth shape but not placing them properly What also makes a big difference is making sure that I'm using 'ah' in the right places rather than my old habit of using 'uh' for everything.

=voronwen]I always felt Italian vowels were "easy", or at least straightforward, but that may have to do with the fact that it was the first language other than English that i sang in as i was beginning training. To this day it's my best, along with Latin (very similar vowels). French vowels are so muddy for singing and German is even worse. To this day i have placement issues with the "eu" vowel combinations in French and the German umlaut. The 'pure' vowels of Italian and Latin just work so much better for me. It's funny, you'd think for a native English speaker it would be the other way around!

I sort of feel the same way. At least the way I've been shown to sing Italian, almost EVERYTHING is a nice, pure vowel. It seems like you don't get into mixed vowels as much as you have to in English and particularly in French.

I'm terrible at it, but I LOOOOOOOOOOVE singing in French so much. I'm sort of saving it for when my technique is super solid, but I am absolutely dying to sing Faure's Apres Un Reve... I could sing it now, but I want to wait till my technique is just spot on, because most people sing it like a beginner's piece, but IMO it's SO much more in the 'hands' of someone with good technique.

I do love to sing things like Bois Epai though . I sang it once in a lesson (I learned it myself then brought it in) and my teacher wouldn't work on it with me because she said it was too easy for me . That really irritated me because that was when I was still just struggling like hell to sing, so I finally found something that stayed mostly in my lower range, the top note was only a D and it didn't hang out up on that D... something I felt like I could actually SING, and she said no . I can understand her reasoning to a degree, but DANG. >.<


I am part French, so maybe that's it . Supposedly German is really good in my voice, although I don't enjoy it as much as French. I'm also part German, so.... maybe I'm just pulling at threads (definitely! ).

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Yes... not everyone is, but I suspect that he's giving us first-timers the english versions because he expects the foreign language singers to have everything word-for-word translated into english, to know all the words (or close enough), and to IPA out their stuff. I suspect he doesn't want to scare off the new-comers, and of course he doesn't know how much effort we're willing to put in before he's even met us, so he doesn't want to give us something too challenging.

OK, this makes sense.

Focusing on the vowels is reaaaaally helping. Particularly going in and making sure that I'm actually getting all the way onto 'oo' and 'ee' vowels instead of making the right mouth shape but not placing them properly What also makes a big difference is making sure that I'm using 'ah' in the right places rather than my old habit of using 'uh' for everything.

Good

I sort of feel the same way. At least the way I've been shown to sing Italian, almost EVERYTHING is a nice, pure vowel. It seems like you don't get into mixed vowels as much as you have to in English and particularly in French.

This is true!

I'm terrible at it, but I LOOOOOOOOOOVE singing in French so much. I'm sort of saving it for when my technique is super solid, but I am absolutely dying to sing Faure's Apres Un Reve... I could sing it now, but I want to wait till my technique is just spot on, because most people sing it like a beginner's piece, but IMO it's SO much more in the 'hands' of someone with good technique.

This is exactly how i feel about Allerseelen I adore it, and love singing it - it's one of my favorites.

Re. Faure: I've sung his Requiem (as the soloist), and sang a few of his songs while i was in college. While i enjoyed the Requiem, i never felt anything from the songs that could make me bring them to life. I just didn't connect with them. I found Mandoline frivolous and silly and Ici bas absolutely morose. But maybe if i revisited some others now i might find something there to relate to. It's actually rare that i find myself connecting with anything from that era, though. I tend to naturally connect with the feel of the Baroque much more often.

I do love to sing things like Bois Epai though. I sang it once in a lesson (I learned it myself then brought it in) and my teacher wouldn't work on it with me because she said it was too easy for me . That really irritated me because that was when I was still just struggling like hell to sing, so I finally found something that stayed mostly in my lower range, the top note was only a D and it didn't hang out up on that D... something I felt like I could actually SING, and she said no . I can understand her reasoning to a degree, but DANG. >.<

Hmm... take it to your new teacher and tell him you want to work through it as an exercise. See what he says?

That said, i enjoy singing Caro mio ben. That has to be the quintessential "easy song". (It sits a bit low for me, though - it's much better for a mezzo). There are lots of those "24 Italian Songs" types that just make great practice pieces.

But those "easy" songs, as you've already pointed out, have a lot more to them than meets the eye when you treat them with the same level of respect that you would an aria.

I am part French, so maybe that's it .

Hey, so am i - a good deal of my ancestry is French. It doesn't make those mixed vowels any easier to sing!

Supposedly German is really good in my voice, although I don't enjoy it as much as French. I'm also part German, so.... maybe I'm just pulling at threads (definitely! ).

Well, i am not part German, but i do ok with singing in German (except for that pesky umlaut! but i'm working on it).

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

Re. Faure: I've sung his Requiem (as the soloist), and sang a few of his songs while i was in college. While i enjoyed the Requiem, i never felt anything from the songs that could make me bring them to life. I just didn't connect with them. I found Mandoline frivolous and silly and Ici bas absolutely morose. But maybe if i revisited some others now i might find something there to relate to. It's actually rare that i find myself connecting with anything from that era, though. I tend to naturally connect with the feel of the Baroque much more often.

This is something where I feel research of the composer is essential! Of course I can completely understand not relating to certain pieces of music. For instance 'Blow, Blow, Thou Winter Wind' was one my voice teacher kept trying to pound into my voice last semester and I absolutely hated the piece. He really liked it though, so we sang it.

But about the composer... Faure's works have made SO MUCH more sense to me since I read his series of lectures on good singing. The man had a very playful outlook on life, and in his view singing was a lot like dancing: It should be done freely. He definitely had his serious side, and was an amazing intuitive musician if you read his articles, but I think he liked there to be a playfulness to most of his music. Even if the song is more serious, I think really good 'Faure Singers' add in something of that hint of a dancing lilt into most of his music.

I really think a lot of singers approach his works incorrectly. Maybe I'm just full of myself for having read some of his writing, but I do feel like I can relate to his music much better now . I can completely understand not connecting with some music though.




I am so proud of my dad! Today he got a tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiny bit of vibrato!!!!!!! I am SUPER PROUD!! I had him go 'woo' starting in his falsetto on the G4 and descending in a straight 5-4-3-2-1 pattern. He kept the air moving, but I had him give an extra 'pulse' from his support on each pitch. Then I had him go to 'waa', then we did it again on 'wee' and by the time we got to 'wee' his voice was placed enough that he started getting a little hint of vibrato on the final note as he held it out.

We're still working just a small, comfortable range. He starts losing his placement above an F3... I mean it doesn't just vanish, but it does get a little throaty. He still hasn't got the voice enough in the head to bridge that particular break point.

It's hard not to want to push him harder, but I have to keep reminding myself that every tiny improvement is building up to create his instrument. His vowels are also getting better by tiny increments, so I know that given time it will all add up.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I really think a lot of singers approach his works incorrectly. Maybe I'm just full of myself for having read some of his writing, but I do feel like I can relate to his music much better now . I can completely understand not connecting with some music though.

For me it was probably more about the way they were taught. I worked on them a very long time ago with a teacher whom i didn't connect with, either (that's a different story for a different day! ) and because i was so young at the time i think my feelings regarding the music became unfortunately discolored. It would probably have been a very different experience had i approached them later, or if i looked at his work now. Perhaps eventually i'll get over my initial distaste. I'm sure all it would take to find something there to connect with would be to consider them again with the new eyes(ears??) of maturity.

I agree completely though about researching the composer, the time periods, the librettists, the poetry set to music as songs, etc. Without that knowledge, several dimensions get lost. I think to really bring a song to life you first need to appreciate it as a poem. And of course, be able to connect with it first as a poem. Then it leads to a better understanding of what the composer was trying to communicate about it through his setting. It's along the lines of knowing about the character for an aria. Of course, this doesn't mean we'll be able to connect with just any poem or character and be able to bring it to life, but i think in most cases we can find even a tiny aspect we can relate to and expand upon it. For the most part, we're dealing with universal concepts. And then of course, everyone's take on it is different (at least, we hope), which is part of the fun.

Good work with your dad!

It's hard not to want to push him harder, but I have to keep reminding myself that every tiny improvement is building up to create his instrument. His vowels are also getting better by tiny increments, so I know that given time it will all add up.

Having that patience is the hardest part of working with someone on this level, i think. It's as if you can already 'hear' what they can be and will be, and you know for the most part exactly what to do to get them there and you just want to show them how to put it all together NOW! Because then, they would sound great. It's hard to bear in mind in the moment that all the muscle memory, coordination, etc will take time for them to acquire. As the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Tessar]

I had to explain to my dad my mentality on singing. He has mentioned that he gets nervous during the lessons because it's like performing during each lesson, and that he's afraid to make mistakes. I tried to explain in as off-handed a manner as I could that you can't be afraid to make mistakes if you want to make great progress, and I told him that my voice usually cracks during lessons, and I make lots of mistakes because lessons are all about pushing your boundaries and there's no way to do that without making slip-ups.

I think he understands what I mean, but I know it's a lot easier to say than it is to do. I've worked hard to develop that attitude, so I know if he does it will also take him work and time.



Because my mom is doing substitute teaching, and hopes to get a job full time, I helped her this evening in bringing her speaking voice forward and I showed her how to put it a little bit in the nose so that you can 'yell' safely with a piercing tone of voice that gets attention.

It was cute because the rest of the family was sitting and watching, and they were very entertained by the things I could do. I demonstrated calling out with a throaty voice, then a forward placed voice without the nasality, then I added in the nasal ping to give it that really sharply piercing quality that can cut through other people yelling, and they were all very amused by the effect of me moving my voice backwards and then forwards.



We're actually ordering a program from http://www.dialectaccentspecialists....ndex.php/cat_4 I don't know if it will be any good or not, but I was impressed by the accent program I had to get (by the same author) for Pirates of Penzance. So I'm hopeful this will be a good program for me! I am very curious to know more about the speaking voice, since I've been told a few aspects do not translate over directly from singing... for instance the breathing is supposedly a little different. I'm glad my parents were kind enough to pay for it, even though we all know that I'll probably end up using it the most if it's any good.

I'd like to speak a little better because that would be just another edge as a performer. Particularly in auditions, or if I get to do any work in non-musical theater.

[Tessar]

I was trying to research Mozart some tonight (considering that I'm singing selections from two of his operas...) and I came across this gem!

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/lwam110.txt

It's wonderful... it's an ebook of some of the letters he wrote to his sister when he was a boy traveling around with his father to perform and write operas. It's very enlightening as to his personality! It reminds me that I read somewhere that sending clever letters was considered a form of entertainment.

[Voronwen]

That lesson you did with your family sounds like it was fun!

Originally Posted by Tessar

I was trying to research Mozart some tonight (considering that I'm singing selections from two of his operas...) and I came across this gem!

http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext04/lwam110.txt

It's wonderful... it's an ebook of some of the letters he wrote to his sister when he was a boy traveling around with his father to perform and write operas. It's very enlightening as to his personality! It reminds me that I read somewhere that sending clever letters was considered a form of entertainment.

Thank you for sharing this! I love Mozart.

[Varnafindë]

It's interesting to follow your conversation!
I like singing - singing in church, and singing along when I'm listening to CDs (when I sometimes have to sing it an octave below the soprano singer ).

When I went to teacher training college (more than thirty years ago), we were required to join some social college activity for the first half year, and I sang in the choir. There wasn't much time for teaching - we learnt the tunes in four parts, and not much about technique. We practised for one hour once a week, and gave a concert in the Cathedral for Christmas.

I could fairly comfortably do a high E in those days (is that what you call an E6, or is it an E5?). I'm out of practise now, and I don't usually check with a piano what the E sounds like anyway, so I don't know in detail what I'm singing, but I guess that the E might be a strain now. But I find it easier to do high notes when I can sing loudly, like in church, than if I'm just singing quietly at home.

It would have been nice to join a choir again, but I can't commit myself to be available for concerts and performances - and then I can't really be a part of a choir.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

It's interesting to follow your conversation!
I like singing - singing in church, and singing along when I'm listening to CDs (when I sometimes have to sing it an octave below the soprano singer ).

Hi, Varnafindë! Welcome to our thread. I'm guessing you're a mezzo or an alto?

I could fairly comfortably do a high E in those days (is that what you call an E6, or is it an E5?). I'm out of practise now, and I don't usually check with a piano what the E sounds like anyway, so I don't know in detail what I'm singing, but I guess that the E might be a strain now. But I find it easier to do high notes when I can sing loudly, like in church, than if I'm just singing quietly at home.

E5 is the E at the top of the staff. If you're a lower voice then yes, this would be your "high E". An E6 is the note you hear at 4:29 in this aria. (I chose this video so you could also see the notes on the page ).

Is that the E you sang?

ETA, on a good day, i still have one of those! It's what i consider "scarily high" and i can do it only if i am not thinking about it (what do you make of that, Tessar?).

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

Hi, Varnafindë! Welcome to our thread. I'm guessing you're a mezzo or an alto?

Not an alto, I don't think - the college choir only had four divisions, and then I was put as a soprano. But in a more detailed analysis, I might well be a mezzo. On the occasion when the conductor split us into 1st sopranos and 2nd sopranos, he put me with the 1st - but our challenge was no higher than that E5 (or possibly an F5), so perhaps there were several mezzos in that group.

E5 is the E at the top of the staff. If you're a lower voice then yes, this would be your "high E". An E6 is the note you hear at 4:29 in this aria. (I chose this video so you could also see the notes on the page ).

Very good, I could see which E she was singing.

Is that the E you sang?

No way!!!
Mine was an E5 then. Does that also mean that C4 is what you find close to the middle (often the keyhole) of a piano?

ETA, on a good day, i still have one of those! It's what i consider "scarily high" and i can do it only if i am not thinking about it (what do you make of that, Tessar?).

You do? That's great! To me, it definitely sounds scarily high!

Either during my time in that choir, or perhaps in something I happened to read, I was told that the best way to hit a note correctly when it is near one's upper limit, is to try to hit it "from above" rather than "from below". I understand what they mean, and I've tried the difference - and I agree. It's so easy to get a less than graceful glide up to the correct note when I put pressure on it that way, while pressing on to something even higher and then relax a little, is more likely to hit spot on.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Not an alto, I don't think - the college choir only had four divisions, and then I was put as a soprano. But in a more detailed analysis, I might well be a mezzo. On the occasion when the conductor split us into 1st sopranos and 2nd sopranos, he put me with the 1st - but our challenge was no higher than that E5 (or possibly an F5), so perhaps there were several mezzos in that group.

From what you're saying, it sounds like mezzo it is. My teacher is a mezzo and she can sing a great high B flat, you'd think she were a fuller-voiced soprano. Where is your chest/head break?

Mine was an E5 then. Does that also mean that C4 is what you find close to the middle (often the keyhole) of a piano?

Yes, C4 = "middle C"

You do? That's great! To me, it definitely sounds scarily high!

Yes, it is, LOL! I'm glad seeing the note 'on paper' was helpful!

Either during my time in that choir, or perhaps in something I happened to read, I was told that the best way to hit a note correctly when it is near one's upper limit, is to try to hit it "from above" rather than "from below". I understand what they mean, and I've tried the difference - and I agree. It's so easy to get a less than graceful glide up to the correct note when I put pressure on it that way, while pressing on to something even higher and then relax a little, is more likely to hit spot on.

Indeed, there is something to this. The last E6 i sang was in a lesson and i had been surprised that it was there - i didnt even know how high i was singing until my teacher mentioned it. I think, somehow, for me that's a key. After writing my last post, i went over to the piano last night to 'see if i had it today', lol. Well, i did.. as well as an F6!!! The trick was to just not think about how high or what pitches i was singing (so much of singing is psychological! ) and, probably more importantly, to keep the placement really light and 'heady'. And *weightless*. Weightless. It didnt' feel like i had disconnected my registers. It only felt as if i was using a very light production of sound... almost like the heady, weightless place of involuntary laughter....

Tessar.... Do you think i have had my breakthrough?!?!?

Can't wait to run this by my teacher.

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Not an alto, I don't think - the college choir only had four divisions, and then I was put as a soprano. But in a more detailed analysis, I might well be a mezzo. On the occasion when the conductor split us into 1st sopranos and 2nd sopranos, he put me with the 1st - but our challenge was no higher than that E5 (or possibly an F5), so perhaps there were several mezzos in that group.

It sounds like you had a very wise conductor. A lot of directors will try to put ridiculously difficult music in front of an untrained group and then they get frustrated, or the singers hurt themselves, trying to sing it.

It sounds like he picked rep. with a good range for untrained sopranos . There is a break in the soprano voice right around that F5 which can make it a challenge to sing above unless you just have a natural connection, or you resort to a very small, tight falsetto sound.

I always, always hesitate to try to classify voices just off of what people say they can sing because of two people in my life. One is my mom, who was singing alto for ages till one day I sat her down at the piano and ended up vocalizing her over a three octave range. Don't know exactly what she is, but once we got her singing soprano she stopped losing her voice, so she's probably either a soprano or lyric mezzo.

The other one is a good friend of mine. She's got a beautiful voice, and has had a fair bit of voice training. Unfortunately due to self-confidence issues, not having a good teacher for the last few years, and just... general stuff... she has self-classified as an alto when I'm positive that she's a mezzo or maybe even a soprano. She flips over into a shaky little falsetto voice as soon as she hits the C5, BUT I solidly vocalized her up to an A5 one time when she didn't realize how high I'd taken her, AND she has a whistle extension to the F6.

Originally Posted by Voronwen

ETA, on a good day, i still have one of those! It's what i consider "scarily high" and i can do it only if i am not thinking about it (what do you make of that, Tessar?).

Not to be cruel, but I'd say the problem is all in your head then! Sounds a little like you psyche yourself out. Not that I'm one to cast stones, since I still have issues with feeling like the D4 is 'high'. I'm getting better about it now that I'm singing so much music that has me hanging out up there, but it's so hard to shake that old feeling of, "Oh God, it's over Middle C, how am I going to sing that?!"

If I let myself get psyched out, then I really do start to lose it. But the minute I think, "Get a grip! You've sung this a million times even WITH bad technique," I find myself able to do it again. It really is a head-game to sing well...

Originally Posted by Voronwen

It only felt as if i was using a very light production of sound... almost like the heady, weightless place of involuntary laughter....

Tessar.... Do you think i have had my breakthrough?!?!?

Can't wait to run this by my teacher.

How exciting!!!!! It sounds like you've found that production!

I really think it's a production thing. I know some sopranos who are getting well into their 60's that can still float at least a D6, so I can hardly imagine that a young singer like yourself would no longer have the physical capability to hit at least a solid Eb!

I'm not surprised to hear you say that it's like a tiny, heady laughter. A soprano friend of mine, who has a marvelous whistle register, has described it like a kettle's whistle and she just sort of floats it out.

A great example of how people can do things if they don't realize what they're doing is my oldest sister... she's not really a singer, but I matched her against the piano one time (this was about four years ago, when she used to shriek if she got excited), and she would do it at about an E6. So I told her to do it again, and pretend it was like a tiny little kettle's whistle then try letting it slide/float upwards. She ended up nailing a solid A6

My second oldest sister can hit a D6 when she competes against me for high notes. One time to test her range I started squeaking out my high falsetto notes, and in falsetto I usually top out at about a B5 or a C6 (every once in a while, like in the shower this morning, I'll hit a whistle note and get a little higher... but that's not really a range I'm trying to cultivate). She can get really competitive some times, and she ended up hitting a D6 to prove that she could singer than I could.



I really, really do wish that my second oldest sister would let me train her. She's got a beautiful voice, but she does that thing where the second she hits the C5 she wants to flip into a falsetto. I'd be surprised if she doesn't start developing a wobble by the time she's 40. Oh well.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

From what you're saying, it sounds like mezzo it is. My teacher is a mezzo and she can sing a great high B flat, you'd think she were a fuller-voiced soprano. Where is your chest/head break?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by chest/head break - but I'll try to explain what I guess that you mean.
I think I discovered as a child, all on my own, that singing was more comfortable if I let my voice sort of 'pop up' into my head. Later I learnt that I was then using the resonance chambers of my head. (I thought for a while that it had something to do with being nasal, but I now think that's something different again.)
Mostly it strained my voice if I kept it 'below my head', so to speak. But I also found that this was not the case with the lowest notes - they would actually be less strained if I didn't let them 'pop up'. I don't know what I'm doing to make the difference, but I know exactly how to do it. It comes natural.

Is this the chest/head difference you're talking about? In that case I guess that my chest/head break would be the note where it starts getting more comfortable to do one than the other.

And the answer is that I don't know, but I'm sure I could work it out.
I would have to do some singing and feel where the break is - and then find a piano and see what note that is

Yes, it is, LOL! I'm glad seeing the note 'on paper' was helpful!

I don't sight-read music, but seeing the music of a tune I vaguely know, will help me to remember it - I see where the small and large jumps are (you've probably got a technical term for that, too ).
Sometimes it will even make me recognize a tune that I know, for instance in a hymn book.

I find that I know some of the musical technical terms in English, but not all ...
I've done linguistics in English, though, and that helps to some extent.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I always, always hesitate to try to classify voices just off of what people say they can sing because of two people in my life. One is my mom, who was singing alto for ages till one day I sat her down at the piano and ended up vocalizing her over a three octave range. Don't know exactly what she is, but once we got her singing soprano she stopped losing her voice, so she's probably either a soprano or lyric mezzo.

"Lyric" mezzo is what my teacher has said she is. It's supposedly very similar to a soprano - perhaps this is why she has all those high notes.

The other one is a good friend of mine. She's got a beautiful voice, and has had a fair bit of voice training. Unfortunately due to self-confidence issues, not having a good teacher for the last few years, and just... general stuff... she has self-classified as an alto when I'm positive that she's a mezzo or maybe even a soprano. She flips over into a shaky little falsetto voice as soon as she hits the C5, BUT I solidly vocalized her up to an A5 one time when she didn't realize how high I'd taken her, AND she has a whistle extension to the F6.

Ack, this sounds like me in high school, before i had lessons! I was so sure i was NOT a soprano, LOL! I was "afraid" of anything over an A5, and considered myself a mezzo. In fact, i wanted to be a mezzo. Mezzos have it made! They can sing anything, be it musical theater, early music, popular music, etc (while we high sopranos are so limited, genre-wise! ). I can't tell you how vehemently i had argued with the early teacher of mine who first said i was a soprano, "and a high one at that!". Nooooo! I was a mezzo. Mezzo!

Not to be cruel, but I'd say the problem is all in your head then! Sounds a little like you psyche yourself out.

Oh, that's not cruel at all! It's probably 100% correct!

If I let myself get psyched out, then I really do start to lose it. But the minute I think, "Get a grip! You've sung this a million times even WITH bad technique," I find myself able to do it again. It really is a head-game to sing well...

Oh, indeed, it is!

How exciting!!!!! It sounds like you've found that production!

I think i have! And when it's just right (i was experimenting again with it today), it's always there, and it feels effortless! Who knew?!?!?

I really think it's a production thing. I know some sopranos who are getting well into their 60's that can still float at least a D6, so I can hardly imagine that a young singer like yourself would no longer have the physical capability to hit at least a solid Eb!

This is true. I'd say that the D/Eb6 is the last note for me in "full" voice, as in all connected to the weight of the chest. Anything above that is a bit like not having your feet on the ground...

I'm not surprised to hear you say that it's like a tiny, heady laughter. A soprano friend of mine, who has a marvelous whistle register, has described it like a kettle's whistle and she just sort of floats it out.

Yes!! This is exactly how it feels! A teacher of mine (the one who had long ago assigned Vorrei, spiegarvi.. to me, as an ideal of sorts to work for), had said it was much like "making a little girl sound". That's also a good description. It's completely weightless in feel, and doesn't 'sound mature' in any way at all. It's like little girls' laughter.

A great example of how people can do things if they don't realize what they're doing is my oldest sister... she's not really a singer, but I matched her against the piano one time (this was about four years ago, when she used to shriek if she got excited), and she would do it at about an E6. So I told her to do it again, and pretend it was like a tiny little kettle's whistle then try letting it slide/float upwards. She ended up nailing a solid A6

Wow! I still don't think i'll ever have an A6! G6 was the highest note i've ever actually sung (and that, in full voice, only once!).

I really, really do wish that my second oldest sister would let me train her. She's got a beautiful voice, but she does that thing where the second she hits the C5 she wants to flip into a falsetto. I'd be surprised if she doesn't start developing a wobble by the time she's 40. Oh well.

Ah, yes it does sound as if she would benefit from alligning her registers. Maybe you can 'sell it' to her by explaining that training leads to vocal longevity!