Wot no Bin Laden thread?

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

I congratulate you, Tessar and GW. I didn't want to be the one to say it. I agree that it is highly unpleasant and bitterly ironic.

Maybe the answer is that those who are crowing about it are not proper Christians.

In countries where the church has some power, there will be people who are in it for power, not for Christ. Those are the people in the group of whom Jesus says they called him Lord, but He doesn't know them.

I don't think it's ever right to rejoice over someone's death - even someone that richly deserved it. There should at least always be a sorrow over the good that could have come, but didn't, from that person's life.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

That suggests to me that it was less of a priority before.

.

That suggests to me that it was less of a priority before.

Gaffer, when he wasn't caught right at first, there had to come a time where we switched over our public stance. At first, of course, it was we were going to find him and bring him to justice. But after a while, it had to switch over, or it would appear like he's totally controlling our whole country and its psyche. I have no doubt that it was always a high priority, but we couldn't keep putting it in the forefront - that would be playing into their hands. And after all, we couldn't even be sure if he was alive or dead - he could have had a camel accident and fallen off of a cliff or something.

I think what Bush said was the right change in tactics.

[GrayMouser]

During the 2008 campaign, Obama said if he had strong enough intelligence about bin Laden's presence in Pakistan, he would take action without informing the Pakistani government, for which he was roundly condemned by John McCain and Hilary Clinton.



http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...stan-video.php


George Bush also made a phone call to President Musharaff to disown Obama's comments, assuring him that this was just an inexperienced candidate taling, and very publicly released news of the call and its contents.

So presumably all of those people who criticised Obama for this believe he should have called the Pakistani government, informed them that the US knew bin Laden was living in a safe house in the middle of a military-populated city, and informed them when and where the SEALS were going in,
and then waited to get the go-ahead from the ISI.

[GrayMouser]

One quote that's going around on this has been attributed to Mark Twain (by me too, without checking )

"I've never wished a man dead, but I've read a few obituaries with great pleasure."

I also originally thought this was a Mark Twain quote, but apparently it comes from Clarence Darrow:

"All men have an emotion to kill; when they strongly dislike some one they involuntarily wish he was dead. I have never killed any one, but I have read some obituary notices with great satisfaction."

Either way, it fits.

[Aikanáro]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Just 'cause sanctity of life has come on the other thread, I suppose I'll come out as having been fairly horrified that Osama was killed, and not captured, and even more horrified by the jingoistic triumphalism over his killing from right-wing Christians.

Yes. This.

'I will mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy' (Not actually a Martin Luther King quote, despite the misattributions seemingly all over the internet, but it still fits.)

[brownjenkins]

Humans are emotional beings, not static philosphies. Our passions, rational entwined with irrational, are what makes us what we are. It's what makes all religion, from muslim the christian so compelling to us and so silly at the same time.

We cherish our ideals because we can conceive them. If we actually lived them, we wouldn't even think about them.

[inked]

Sanctity of life in the current sinful status quo of necessity involves the death of those who threaten death and declare war on innocent persons as their means of waging war. The UN even said so, which is great considering their lack of anything in Rwanda, Serbia, and how-many-Arab-Spring-countries to date.

OSB was a war criminal. He declared war on the US (The Great Satan, remember?). He made war on the US. He was found, as promised. He was killed. This was not an assasination. It was a battlefield killing. It is what happens in war. He made war. He got his. End of story.

That's not exultation or an abeyance of principle. It is actually retributive justice.

[OldHippie]

As an American with Republicans leanings I commend President Obama for having the fortitude to carry out this mission. I'm happy the SOB is gone.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by inked

Sanctity of life in the current sinful status quo of necessity involves the death of those who threaten death and declare war on innocent persons as their means of waging war. The UN even said so, which is great considering their lack of anything in Rwanda, Serbia, and how-many-Arab-Spring-countries to date.

The UN can only act when the Security Council decides- blaming the "UN" for lack of action is an attempt to dodge the issue of who benefits.

In Rwanda nobody wanted to intervene.

Serbia was opposed by Russia and China- Russia out of sympathy for fellow-Serbs; China because they're always opposed to internal interventions.

As for the Arab Spring, it depends whose ox is being gored:

Britain, France and to a lesser extent the US wanted to intervene in Libya, while again China and Russia were opposed, though in the end willing to go along with the "protecting civilians" fig-leaf.

Nobody wants to put troops into Syria, and the only concern for Yemen is whether whoever the ruling strongman is can keep it from becoming an al-Qaeda base.


The US certainly wasn't going to oppose the Saudi crushing of the "Arab Spring" in Bahrain- not while the current dictatorship provides bases in the Gulf for the US Navy and a democratic government, being controlled by the 70% of the population that's Shi'ite, might be friendly to Iran.

[inked]

"The UN even said so" GM. You apparently understood that to mean something other than hot air. I don't recall them saying anything about the other places mentioned. The UN ignored Rwanda and actively abandoned it. Check out the movie THE SHOOT DOGS DON'T THEY?

[Rían]

This is absolutely hilarious - if we had an Italian president from New Jersey searching for Bin Laden

"Steal the rugs, let's get outta here!"

[Coffeehouse]

Last night I saw ZeroDarkThirty, about hunt to capture OBL. I highly recommend it.

When I first heard news of OBLs death in May '11 it was with mixed feelings. While no doubt he must have seen coming a violent death after his decades-long support of terrorism, it bothered me that we never heard his testimony and that he did not stand trial. That would have been a remarkable insight into the machinations of a terrorist leader, and I like to believe that it would be a game-changer in setting the debate on our terms, for the whole world to see. Some say that it would be a microphone for OBL and al-Qa'eda. But if we really hold the moral high ground, that would be the perfect opportunity to take apart al-Qa'edas ideology piece by piece, until nothing was left of it except an empty shell of violence.