Ability to Communicate with The One Ring

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

[EDIT: Discussion split off from the thread Hunt for the Ring at members' request - Eärniel]


I wasn't sure whether this thread, the "Why drop Merry" thread, or a new thread was more appropriate for this observation/question/hypothesis but here it is at any rate. I'll be happy to move it or have it moved as necessary.

I was reading/listening to the Prancing Pony chapter last evening and noticed that not once but twice it is mentioned that Frodo's impulse to put on the ring seemed to come from "in the room":

He felt the Ring on its chain, and quite unaccountably the desire came over him to slip it on and vanish out of the silly situation. It seemed to him, somehow, as if me suggestion came to him from outside, from someone or something in the room.

and

For a moment he wondered if the Ring itself had not played him a trick; perhaps it had tried to reveal itself in response to some wish or command that was felt in the room.

I've seen it hypothesized that one of the Nazgul was nearby, outside of the Inn, making this happen. I guess my observation/question at the moment is: why would he have to be outside? He's invisible with his cloak off. Couldn't he have been right there in the common room unseen? Wouldn't that better fit the narrative that the command seemed to be from "in the room?" I realize that both "in the room" quotes are a character's perception/perspective, but for the author to mention it twice seems to indicate authorial agreement. Comment?

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I've seen it hypothesized that one of the Nazgul was nearby, outside of the Inn, making this happen. I guess my observation/question at the moment is: why would he have to be outside? He's invisible with his cloak off. Couldn't he have been right there in the common room unseen? Wouldn't that better fit the narrative that the command seemed to be from "in the room?" I realize that both "in the room" quotes are a character's perception/perspective, but for the author to mention it twice seems to indicate authorial agreement. Comment?

I’m not here, but…

It sounds reasonable to me. The point of the observation about the Nazgûl across the street from the Inn in “why did the Nazgûl drop Merry at Bree” was that Merry saw the Ringwraith near the Inn at very nearly the same time that Frodo had his “accident” with the Ring. It seemed logical to me that this Ringwraith was “calling to” or “pinging” the Ring (to use as 21st century term).

There is no reason to think that an “uncloaked,” completely invisible Nazgûl was not in the Commons Room except this: my understanding is that when “uncloaked,” invisible Nazgûl cause more terror to living Men that when they can be seen, perhaps because the fear they feel has no source the Living can locate. I think it would have been difficult for an “uncloaked” Ringwraith to suppress the fear the folks in the Commons Room would naturally have experienced because of its presence.

I think that either Frodo mistook the influence of the Nazgûl outside the Inn for something inside the Inn; or more likely that the Ring itself, awakened and invigorated by the Nazgûl nearby, was the influence inside the Inn that Frodo discerned.

[Gordis]

Could the nazgul teach the Isengarder how to issue the "ping" command?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I've seen it hypothesized that one of the Nazgul was nearby, outside of the Inn, making this happen. I guess my observation/question at the moment is: why would he have to be outside? He's invisible with his cloak off. Couldn't he have been right there in the common room unseen? Wouldn't that better fit the narrative that the command seemed to be from "in the room?" I realize that both "in the room" quotes are a character's perception/perspective, but for the author to mention it twice seems to indicate authorial agreement. Comment?

Originally Posted by Alcuin

There is no reason to think that an “uncloaked,” completely invisible Nazgûl was not in the Commons Room except this: my understanding is that when “uncloaked,” invisible Nazgûl cause more terror to living Men that when they can be seen, perhaps because the fear they feel has no source the Living can locate. I think it would have been difficult for an “uncloaked” Ringwraith to suppress the fear the folks in the Commons Room would naturally have experienced because of its presence.

The idea of a Nazgul being inside the Room is certainly flawed. Indeed, the people would have noticed that immediately. Also Frodo would, and with far much more power. No, no way.

But what it was, then? Certainly it was nothing from outside the room. We know that, like The Dread Pirate Roberts pointed out, it's been said too many times for us to ignore it.

But I think even the Ring itself is not the answer. The way it's put it's made likely that it was not the Ring calling upon itself, or at least, not really just for itself.

You are all making it too complicated, I think. Why to speak of pinging. Bill Ferny or some Southerner simply wanted, wanted desperately to know something about the Ring, and their wish simply, well, "materialised" or came true. "Evil will", simply. It concentrated to the point that the Ring caught upon their malicious thoughts and responded. Remember what Gandalf and others repeated too many times: the Ring has a will of its own, and it wants to be found. It understood that Gollum is a malicious creature, and responded to his thoughts, and Gollum took it. So, indeed, Alcuin's hypothesis is the closest to truth, I'd say: just with the addittion that it was not solely the Ring itself, but the Ring reacting to Bill Ferny's intent to obtain some information on the Ringbearer.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Or is it a "line of sight" kind of thing? If the Nazgul could "see" through one of the windows from outside, would it make a difference? Or if he suspected the Ring's presence in the Inn, at least, could he possibly focus "the ping" on the common room rather than just sending it out in a circle? I know I'm probably keying on one phrase more than it's worth, but Frodo's sense that the command came from within the room, repeated twice by Tolkien, makes me feel like if the command wasn't originated in the room, it was at least focused toward the room.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

...Frodo's sense that the command came from within the room, repeated twice by Tolkien, makes me feel like if the command wasn't originated in the room, it was at least focused toward the room.

It would certainly have been focused on the Ring, and not on Frodo: the action on him would be through the dingus. The Ring was in the room: it was on his person, and eventually it found itself on his finger!

[vollyana]

Wow...not sure I can get through all that in a year...LOL. )

[Alcuin]

Unless Sauron equipped the Nazgûl with some item that could awaken or arouse the malice of the One Ring, and they gave it to Ferny so that he could carry it into the Prancing Pony, I cannot see how Bill Ferny – however mischievous malicious, or maleficent he might hew – could cause the Ring to incite such an event as happened to Frodo. The Nazgûl, on the other hand, had no doubt been especially prepared by the Lord of the Rings to complete the quest they had undertaken; providing them with some means to “call” to the Ring in order to induce it to reveal itself seems to me an obvious step for Sauron.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

You are all making it too complicated, I think. Why to speak of pinging. Bill Ferny or some Southerner simply wanted, wanted desperately to know something about the Ring, and their wish simply, well, "materialised" or came true. "Evil will", simply. It concentrated to the point that the Ring caught upon their malicious thoughts and responded.

I like the idea in general - as I believe that the Ring was primarily Osanwe device, operated by thought and strong will and responding to such signals coming from its wielder and from outsiders. BUT: I don't think Bill and the Southerner had evil wills strong enough to make the Ring feel and respond to them.

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Unless Sauron equipped the Nazgûl with some item that could awaken or arouse the malice of the One Ring, and they gave it to Ferny so that he could carry it into the Prancing Pony, I cannot see how Bill Ferny – however mischievous malicious, or maleficent he might hew – could cause the Ring to incite such an event as happened to Frodo. The Nazgûl, on the other hand, had no doubt been especially prepared by the Lord of the Rings to complete the quest they had undertaken; providing them with some means to “call” to the Ring in order to induce it to reveal itself seems to me an obvious step for Sauron.

I don't believe in a special material "item" used for "ring-pinging" that the Nazgul would entrust to their ruffian spis. Too complicated: each nazgul would have to have his own device (these two naz-guys in Bree, H and I, weren't even expected to find the Ring there, so if the Nine had but one "RingPinger", it would be with Khamul). And to give such a device to a lowly ruffian who could steal it...or break it and who would have to be taught how to use it... All this seems unlikely.

I think the "RingPinger" was not a device, it was a spell. The nazgul must have taught it to the Southerner (maybe also to Ferny) before sending them into the common room. This spell - words of command in BS - could have helped the spies to make their presence known to the Ring.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I'm not so sure a Nazgul is unable to sneak around because he uncontrollably projects fear everywhere he goes. It's a good argument but I'm not quite ready to give up if there's a possible alternative.

The fear they inspire is certainly undeniable when it's at work, and none of that fear appeared in the common room of the Pony that night. That said, is there any evidence that the fear a Nazgul projects is or isn't under their control? They scare geese and dogs and hobbits and even men, but isn't that because they want to?

When the Nazgul tried to bribe Farmer Maggot with gold, Maggot didn't report feeling dread, but rather the Nazgul seems to have focused just a tiny hint of fear toward him:

"Have you seen Baggins?” he asked in a queer voice, and bent down towards me. I could not see any face, for his hood fell down so low; and I felt a sort of shiver down my back.

When the Nazgul overtook Frodo, Sam, and Pippin on the road, there is no report of either Sam or Pippin feeling any fear. In fact, not seeing the Nazgul because they were hiding in "a little hollow not far from the road," Sam and Pippin had to have the entire encounter described to them by Frodo. Frodo, on the other hand, suddenly felt "fear of discovery," which also tells me that the Nazgul's fear is projected and aimed intentionally.

The Gaffer didn't show any fear of the Nazgul, and his encounter was right around nightfall.

Ferny and the Southerner apparently weren't too terrified to make bargains with the Nazgul, either.

And another with Frodo, when the Nazgul overtook them on the flat near the fords:

'Ride forward! Ride!' cried Glorfindel to Frodo.

He did not obey at once, for a strange reluctance seized him. Checking the horse to a walk, he turned and looked back. The Riders seemed to sit upon their great steeds like threatening statues upon a hill, dark and solid, while all the woods and land about them receded as if into a mist. Suddenly he knew in his heart that they were silently commanding him to wait. Then at once fear and hatred awoke in him. His hand left the bridle and gripped the hilt of his sword, and with a red flash he drew it.

This also seems to indicate that the fear of the Nazgul is neither constant nor pervasive.

I'm not convinced that the Nazgul couldn't control the amount of fear they put out. If they could, then an unclothed Ringwraith could sneak around if he chose to. At least it bears further investigation, IMO.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I'm not so sure a Nazgul is unable to sneak around because he uncontrollably projects fear everywhere he goes. It's a good argument but I'm not quite ready to give up if there's a possible alternative.

The fear they inspire is certainly undeniable when it's at work, and none of that fear appeared in the common room of the Pony that night. That said, is there any evidence that the fear a Nazgul projects is or isn't under their control? They scare geese and dogs and hobbits and even men, but isn't that because they want to?

Why would they want to scare poor geese?

I am sure the nazgul could control the fear they projected, but to some extent. They were able to tone it down - but not obliterate it entirely, otherwise all Sauron's problems when sending the Nazgul (see UT) would have been moot. Certainly while traveling unclad through Anorien they tried to pass unobserved, yet their terror went with them. Later they tried to pass for ordinary people, but the fear the people felt gave them away: " terror went before them and lingered behind them; but they did not find what they sought nor learn any news that availed them".-UT

Also, I believe different nazgul were able to tone down their terror to a different degree: the more powerful the nazgul, the stronger the residual fear. Thus the three strongest ones (ABC) were not employed to question people, but remained guarding the roads. Both the Southerner and Grima nearly died from terror when being questioned by the WK: yet I doubt it was the Captain's intent. Our Bree nazgul, H and I , were most likely the weakest of the Nine, so their questioning etc. caused no great stir in the town. Yet the dogs were howling, the geese screaming and Nob's hair stood on end, so some residual fear remained. Khamul seemed also quite good in "toning the fear down" - both the Gaffer and Maggot felt more or less OK.

There was also the nazgul sent to Erebor to talk with Dain. This one was not bad in toning down his fear either. I would guess it was most likely G or F, as he traveled so far from Mordor alone. Though maybe there was a pair sent from Mordor: one went to Erebor, another to Dale to speak with King Brand.

Originally Posted by DPR

The Gaffer didn't show any fear of the Nazgul, and his encounter was right around nightfall.

Gaffer says: "Hissed at me, he did. It gave me quite a shudder"

Originally Posted by DPR

Ferny and the Southerner apparently weren't too terrified to make bargains with the Nazgul, either.

We don't know that, but we do know how Harry Goatleaf felt: "He was white and shaking when they left him" In the drafts his encounter with the nazgul is told first-hand: he felt pretty scared, I assure you.

Originally Posted by DPR

I'm not convinced that the Nazgul couldn't control the amount of fear they put out. If they could, then an unclothed Ringwraith could sneak around if he chose to. At least it bears further investigation, IMO.

They could tone it down, but could not turn it off entirely, especially 1. the strongest nazgul, 2. when gathered together, 3.when unclad.
I don't believe Frodo would be much inclined to sing merrily about the cow and jump on the table if there were an unclad nazgul in the same room.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Why would they want to scare poor geese?

If you'd ever been treed by one on top a butane tank, you wouldn't bear them a lot of good will, let me assure you.

Seriously, the dogs and geese thing was a part of the English traditional response to ghosts.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Gordis is right about the fear the Nazgul produced. It is all in "The Hunt for the Ring", and also implied elsewhere. I would agree what he said - that Nazgul were able to regulate the fear they produced, but just a little, not completely, and it also depended on the circumstances and on the individual Nazgul. And mainly, an unclad Nazgul did indeed cause far much fear than a clad Nazgul.

And it is really impossible for one to enter the Inn. That would be a silly thing to do, and they would not have dared to do that, if only for fear of scaring away the Ringbearer if he was there. Another thing is that Strider says:

Originally Posted by FotR

And in any case [attacking the Inn] is not their way. In dark and loneliness they are strongest; they will not openly attack a house where there are lights and many people

I always thought this as a kind of overall thing, you know, just like the general idea people have about ghosts and creatures of night - the haunters of the dark do not dare to enter a room full of people where there's light and joy. It won't be Nazgul-ish to go there.

Ad pinging: I really don't think there was any problem with the Ring responding to Ferny's malice. It reacted to Gollum's malice, after all; I don't think Sméagol was any more evil than Ferny back then. And it was the general atmosphere, the Dark Lord was thinking about it all the time, the Ringwraith were near, and so the Ring was as awakened as possible, and when somebody close to it just thought about the Ringbearer, it just had to manifest itself. The Ring must have felt that the path to go back to its Master is just so close, if only Ferny notices it. It is as if a kid with a soft voice was lost in a supermarket and suddenly heard somebody calling its name. "Damn," thought Ferny, "just if something happened that would show me where to look..." "Hey! Bill! Yes, I am here!"

[Attalus]

I do not believe that the Nazgul would have any power whatever over the Ring. On the contrary, we are told that it "draws them." Now, I do not entirely believe that Aragorn was an initiate of Ring-lore to any great degree, and I doubt (corrections gratefully accepted) that he had any previous contact with the Nine. Rather, I would think this was lore handed down among the Dunedain or at the House of Elrond. Furthermore, I believe we have sufficient evidence that the Ring was at least semi-sentient, able to react when its Master "put forth his dark thought," at least to the extent of abandoning Isildur and Gollum. Now, I do not for a second credit the Movie's vision of the Ring rolling merrily along like a child's old-fashioned barrel-hoop, but I do feel that it could slip off, as we have ample testimony, perhaps clouding the Bearer's mind as to whether or not it had done so. Indeed, this is the only way I can explain the Bilbo-Gollum contretemps.