Discussion Thread for the Tale of Sky Blue

[Tuinor]

The title says it all: I'd deeply appreciate any sort of advice or criticism on this story, as well as what anyone thinks of it so far. Don't worry about being brutally honest about anything; I can handle it, trust me.

I'd also like any ideas you may have on the story or what you'd like to see it go to next. Trust me, I'm nowhere near done with it.

Also, thanks to anyone who is reading it, and I hope you've enjoyed doing so as much as I have writing it.

[Lief Erikson]

I just finished reading that of it that you've so far posted, Tuinor. I'm enjoying the plot structure . . . it's quite interesting. The ideas in the prologue got me interested from the start, and I like your idea of having Aisha and the Master traitors from the rest of this order.

I really like how the story is currently centered on a few important characters, without involving all kinds of nameless troops. Keeping the action between main good guys and main bad guys without involving many troops-to-be-busted really helps stories, I think. That's the ideal, I think, and it's cool that you've been able to keep to that so far. I know that, unfortunately, sometimes putting nameless troops into the story is necessary . . . it sometimes is in my own book. But you've avoided that so far, so keep that up as long as you can .

The dialogue in your story between Liera and Tuinor didn't always hold me because it was often (though not always) pretty much casual chatting. I liked Sky's bashfulness and defensiveness, though.

In the beginning sentences, after the prologue, you mention that the city looked "colossal," and that Tuinor had great amazement, but that doesn't really paint a picture for me to grasp in my mind so that I know what he's seeing and what his perspective is. So including some more description there would be nice.

Also I got rather confused by the continuous references to "it" that were occurring in the order's council. I didn't know what they were talking about, so the dialogue there was somewhat hard to follow.

I really like the ideas you're using. The plot doesn't seem at all stereotypical to me, and it doesn't seem similar to any books I've read. So I'm really enjoying it .

That nightmare sequence sure did get dramatic, especially with the conclusion. Having major characters betray their order in the end of the scene really makes clear the importance of the sequence. That was really dramatic, both exciting and character-driven. A lot of major events occurred in that little bit of space . . . and that really made things exciting.

Packing major events together so that they happen quickly can keep the reader very interested all the time, which is important, even if it leads to a shorter story.

I think that what I like best about your story at present really is the plot structure, how it doesn't follow a pattern I've seen before and is very character focused.

Oh, just to let you know, it may take a while for me to read any more after you post it, so don't take it askance if I'm a slug.

[Tuinor]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I just finished reading that of it that you've so far posted, Tuinor. I'm enjoying the plot structure . . . it's quite interesting. The ideas in the prologue got me interested from the start, and I like your idea of having Aisha and the Master traitors from the rest of this order.

Thanks for reading, Lief, and I'm glad you've enjoyed it so far.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I really like how the story is currently centered on a few important characters, without involving all kinds of nameless troops. Keeping the action between main good guys and main bad guys without involving many troops-to-be-busted really helps stories, I think. That's the ideal, I think, and it's cool that you've been able to keep to that so far. I know that, unfortunately, sometimes putting nameless troops into the story is necessary . . . it sometimes is in my own book. But you've avoided that so far, so keep that up as long as you can .

I'll try, but I do intend on the story panning out a great deal, so we'll see how that turns out.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

The dialogue in your story between Liera and Tuinor didn't always hold me because it was often (though not always) pretty much casual chatting. I liked Sky's bashfulness and defensiveness, though.

I understand if a lot of it bored you. Some of it bored me, too, and it was very hard to write it to be so "casual", but in the end that was what I was aiming for. See, I want readers such as yourself to be able to believe that these characters can be just as normal (boring) as you or me. I hope I succeeded.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

In the beginning sentences, after the prologue, you mention that the city looked "colossal," and that Tuinor had great amazement, but that doesn't really paint a picture for me to grasp in my mind so that I know what he's seeing and what his perspective is. So including some more description there would be nice.

Yeah, sorry about that . You see, back when I first started posting it I thought it would turn out to be a small short story not covering more than ten or so pages, but now it's up to thirteen pages without any signs of slowing down. In fact, it seems to just keep building up inside my head. I am sorry, though, that it didn't cover enough in the beginning. If I've got time I'll try to change it.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Also I got rather confused by the continuous references to "it" that were occurring in the order's council. I didn't know what they were talking about, so the dialogue there was somewhat hard to follow.

In some cases "it" reffers to something I haven't revealed in the plot yet, but I will soon. In most cases, however, "it" reffers to Sky. I'm sorry if it confused some people, but I did it because I wanted readers to be able to go back after I'm finished and say "Oh, so that's what 'it' was!" I've always wanted to write a story that one has to read twice in order to really get it, but I'll try in the future to keep things like that to a limited few.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I really like the ideas you're using. The plot doesn't seem at all stereotypical to me, and it doesn't seem similar to any books I've read. So I'm really enjoying it .

Thanks! I don't think anyone at all wants a stereotypical plot for their stories, but it's very hard to write one when we're influenced by so many. I am truly glad you're enjoying it.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

That nightmare sequence sure did get dramatic, especially with the conclusion. Having major characters betray their order in the end of the scene really makes clear the importance of the sequence. That was really dramatic, both exciting and character-driven. A lot of major events occurred in that little bit of space . . . and that really made things exciting.

Thank you again. Every once in a while I can write a really awesome action sequence like that, but it's really rare for me. I'm glad everyone can read this one.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Packing major events together so that they happen quickly can keep the reader very interested all the time, which is important, even if it leads to a shorter story.

It gives one a feeling of being in a rush, much like how that scene would be if one were really there.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I think that what I like best about your story at present really is the plot structure, how it doesn't follow a pattern I've seen before and is very character focused.

Plot is the backbone in my storytelling, I think, because I'm horrible when it comes to writing meaty sentences, and I'm nowhere near poetic. As for characters, well, I love characters. That only comes as a problem when I have to kill one off for the sake of the plot.

Just as a fun question, and there's no right answer, but... Which character is your favorite?

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Oh, just to let you know, it may take a while for me to read any more after you post it, so don't take it askance if I'm a slug.

That's fine. I'm just about to post a new scene, so enjoy it when you have the chance. By the way, sorry if this seems long after I've responded to every single one of your statements, but, I'm terribly bored and have little else to do.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I'll try, but I do intend on the story panning out a great deal, so we'll see how that turns out.

Yep, we'll see. I'd 100% understand, of course, if one can't keep it between main characters. I haven't been successful in doing that completely in my books either, though I'm trying to maximize those kinds of conflicts as much as I can. I haven't seen any fantasy writers or movie makers do that successfully, I don't think. Or at least very few (I can't think of any right now). It would be cool if that could work, though . I think it's an ideal, because fights between main characters are so dramatic and cool .

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I understand if a lot of it bored you. Some of it bored me, too, and it was very hard to write it to be so "casual", but in the end that was what I was aiming for. See, I want readers such as yourself to be able to believe that these characters can be just as normal (boring) as you or me. I hope I succeeded.

Yeah, I see what you're going for and trying to make the people seem normal is fine, I think. I'm not sure that this the way that's best to go about it, though. Perhaps the characters can speak in a style that's natural but avoid making comments that bore you?

Writing things in a way that comes across as natural for the characters is fine, but boring . . . I'd steer clear of that, if I were you.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

In some cases "it" reffers to something I haven't revealed in the plot yet, but I will soon. In most cases, however, "it" reffers to Sky. I'm sorry if it confused some people, but I did it because I wanted readers to be able to go back after I'm finished and say "Oh, so that's what 'it' was!" I've always wanted to write a story that one has to read twice in order to really get it, but I'll try in the future to keep things like that to a limited few.

I understood that you were talking around something you were going to reveal in the future, and that's fine. But it does get really confusing when they're talking about this unspecified it and Sky also . . . that can kind of tangle things up. Also, maybe it wouldn't hurt if you could name whatever item or person it is they're referring to? The audience doesn't have enough world knowledge to know about it yet, and then when it does come up in the story, they might think to themselves suddenly, "oh, isn't that what they were talking about in that earlier conversation . . . ?" and page back to it. And then they'd begin to work through it some on their own, which would be rather interesting for them.

Or if you'd rather keep it more completely secret, like it currently is, perhaps they'd have some code word to refer to it? Or some special name for it that only they use? Those kinds of things might help the conversation to flow more easily.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Thanks! I don't think anyone at all wants a stereotypical plot for their stories, but it's very hard to write one when we're influenced by so many. I am truly glad you're enjoying it.

I like the conversation about Aevor and the nature/windmill analogy too . That was cool and greatly increases my respect for both Aevor and Jahud. Plus this . . . I forget what his name is . . . the little runt who was talking with Jahud, that guy's development also is rather fun.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Thank you again. Every once in a while I can write a really awesome action sequence like that, but it's really rare for me. I'm glad everyone can read this one.

Me too . It's cool when the mood hits .

Originally Posted by Tuinor

It gives one a feeling of being in a rush, much like how that scene would be if one were really there.

That's certainly good to work with too. It's cool to work out these elements and keep always developing and improving.

Have you written many stories or books before this one?

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Plot is the backbone in my storytelling, I think, because I'm horrible when it comes to writing meaty sentences, and I'm nowhere near poetic. As for characters, well, I love characters. That only comes as a problem when I have to kill one off for the sake of the plot.

I know what you mean. It's the same for me . . . so in my most recent book I'm resurrecting them all .

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Just as a fun question, and there's no right answer, but... Which character is your favorite?

Jahud. He presently is coming across as very intelligent, calm, collected, controlled, and very strong. He's impressive.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

That's fine. I'm just about to post a new scene, so enjoy it when you have the chance. By the way, sorry if this seems long after I've responded to every single one of your statements, but, I'm terribly bored and have little else to do.

I send very long posts all the time, and I often prefer receiving long answers to short ones.

I like having my statements all responded to very much . Not that anyone has to, of course, but I do appreciate it.

[Tuinor]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

It would be cool if that could work, though . I think it's an ideal, because fights between main characters are so dramatic and cool .

It is ideal, but I'd say it'd be impossible on a scale as large as a major battle or something like that. Still, main characters are a lot more interesting to focus on.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Perhaps the characters can speak in a style that's natural but avoid making comments that bore you?

That would be difficult, but I could give it a shot.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Writing things in a way that comes across as natural for the characters is fine, but boring . . . I'd steer clear of that, if I were you.

Perhaps I should just paraphrase idle chat from now on? Actually, most of the time I do paraphrase unimportant chats, yet I almost always feel I've cheeted the character out of something important.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Or if you'd rather keep it more completely secret, like it currently is, perhaps they'd have some code word to refer to it? Or some special name for it that only they use? Those kinds of things might help the conversation to flow more easily.

Actually, I've been trying to think of several special words for things in the story such as the special training Sky has recieved, but I just can't think of anything.

I gotta go , but I'll try to reply to the rest of your post later.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Tuinor

It is ideal, but I'd say it'd be impossible on a scale as large as a major battle or something like that.

True. With major battles and confrontations between large forces, that's definitely true. A fight between one or two central characters though, like the one between Aisha and Sky, is always at least as interesting as a major battle, though, to me .

Originally Posted by Tuinor

That would be difficult, but I could give it a shot.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Perhaps I should just paraphrase idle chat from now on? Actually, most of the time I do paraphrase unimportant chats, yet I almost always feel I've cheeted the character out of something important.

I don't feel that way when reading books that paraphrase unimportant things. I think paraphrasing is often a good idea for stuff like that. When actual dialogue is occurring, I feel it's usually best to keep it advancing the storyline. I think characters can speak in a way that's natural while discussing things plot related. But sometimes including a normal conversation might be helpful- I know I shouldn't generalize. Those might be helpful for character development from time to time. Just don't bore yourself during them . I personally don't think that that would cheat the characters at all.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Actually, I've been trying to think of several special words for things in the story such as the special training Sky has recieved, but I just can't think of anything.

I bet you'll come up with something that works. Sometimes it just takes some hard thinking (and for me, pacing) to get over story hurdles.

[Tuinor]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I like the conversation about Aevor and the nature/windmill analogy too . That was cool and greatly increases my respect for both Aevor and Jahud. Plus this . . . I forget what his name is . . . the little runt who was talking with Jahud, that guy's development also is rather fun.

Jahud and Aevor understand one another. I wish I could say more, cause I love talking about them, but it would ruin the plot for everyone, so I'll keep my mouth closed on it. About Sa'if, I'm having fun with him, too. He's just impatient (hasty as we ents say), but I feel like he may end up being crutial to the story.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Me too. It's cool when the mood hits.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

That's certainly good to work with too. It's cool to work out these elements and keep always developing and improving.

It's like painting with only base colors and having to mix your own from red yellow and blue. Every scene is governed by pace, mood, and plot. I love analogies, by the way. (But I can't paint)

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Have you written many stories or books before this one?

(You asked for it!)

Actually, I haven't really completed any that's probably due to the fact that I can never really leave something as is. I always tend to try and over complicate it or go into far too much depth, which I love doing, but it ends up being my ultimate downfall.


So far I am working in four other works (not related to Sky Blue). Actually, these all take place in a world called Terracia.

The first (and by far the longest) is untitled (can't think of a name after five years of writing!), but it's about a young Ilndir (one of three races I thought up for Terracia) who finds that he's a descendant of an ancient Prophet-King type character who vanished sometime in the prehistories of the world. The story follows an ongoing struggle with the demonic forces in the world and his personal struggles as he accends to power.

The second is called the Legend of the Three Swords and follows a young Undar (another of the races). In this the main character is a wandering stranger who is fleeing a painful past. In the beginning of the legend he is met by another prophet-like character who ironically bestows upon him Hope, one of three powerfull swords forged from the broken shards of Almighty's blade. The other two are Faith and Love, and the story follows him as he tries to find the other two wielders of the blades (there is one for each of the three races).

The third is called the Legend of the Red-Eyed Assassin and follows the character who's name I stole and now use on Entmoot. In it a Ilndir prince (Tuinor) is born with a strange darkness within him, and for his "deformity" he is banished by his father. This leads up to his evntually becoming an ally with a sub race of the Ilndiri and the enemies of his father. He commits many heinous acts and sins agaisnt his people for which he is cursed with the sight of blood. His red irises cause people to begin to reffer to him as Tuinor the Red Eyed.

The fourth is simply a record of the prehistories of the world. It covers way too much for me to say much more, but I am thinking of perhaps posting it on Entmoot. So you may get to read it after all.

I'm sorry I babbled on for so long about that, but I do really love Terracia.(Even though its name is funny) Eh-hem! Now, where were we...

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I know what you mean. It's the same for me . . . so in my most recent book I'm resurrecting them all.

LoL!

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Jahud. He presently is coming across as very intelligent, calm, collected, controlled, and very strong. He's impressive.

Currently he is also my favorite, but I always tend to switch loyalties to whomever I happen to be writing about, so I'm not so good a judge. Thanks for answering, though.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

When actual dialogue is occurring, I feel it's usually best to keep it advancing the storyline. I think characters can speak in a way that's natural while discussing things plot related. But sometimes including a normal conversation might be helpful- I know I shouldn't generalize. Those might be helpful for character development from time to time. Just don't bore yourself during them . I personally don't think that that would cheat the characters at all.

Yeah, stagnant stories do cause one to loose interest, fast. It's just, when I write I want people to believe that these are real people and not just characters. I know they're not, but that's part of storytelling. Still, perhaps it's good just to have an introductory dialogue so that people can establish that "Ok, this guy is so-and-so," and leave the rest up to paraphrases.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I bet you'll come up with something that works. Sometimes it just takes some hard thinking (and for me, pacing) to get over story hurdles.

Brainstorming's fun, but I think I'll sleep on it for right now. It's 3:00 AM where I am, and I need some rest!

Good night. I'll try to think of some good questions while I rest. Thanks for the advice.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Jahud and Aevor understand one another. I wish I could say more, cause I love talking about them, but it would ruin the plot for everyone, so I'll keep my mouth closed on it. About Sa'if, I'm having fun with him, too. He's just impatient (hasty as we ents say), but I feel like he may end up being crutial to the story.

I also got that feeling. Makes me wonder whether it would be good or bad for the heroes if he was head of the order. The following is just my own ponderings, based on what I've seen of the characters so far, and I might very well be wrong about their natures.

Jahud is a ton smarter, but he's not planning to kill Aevor, and I don't know whether or not he'll try to kill the others. It's quite possible he might, of course, but his intentions are less clear. Sa'if, on the other hand, seems much less smart but possibly somewhat meaner. So I wonder which would be a better leader for our heroes.

By the way, I'm somewhat confused about what happened to Liera. Was she Aisha in disguise? I don't think so, but I'm a little unsure. What happened to Liera is not clear to me.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

It's like painting with only base colors and having to mix your own from red yellow and blue. Every scene is governed by pace, mood, and plot.

I've written almost all my books that way too, but I can't do it anymore. Now my scenes are governed by characters, because I'm bad at predicting what they'd logically do. Plus new and better ideas keep coming up throughout the story that change it radically as it progresses. I used to construct the entire plot only to have my characters shatter it, because I can't make them behave in ways that are out of character, and I'm no good at predicting them or whatever new ideas might turn up.

So now I just let the characters run the story, doing what they naturally would do, and I tag along behind them chronicling their actions.

But I know many authors can structure their entire stories through plot beforehand, and control it and use it very effectively. J.K. Rowling is highly talented with this, for example. I suspect that Robert Jordan is doing that too.

I bet that there are a lot of different and effective ways of writing a story.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I love analogies, by the way. (But I can't paint)

Me too, now. I used to never use them, but lately I've strongly realized their value.

I keep running into situations in my writing where I can't describe strange creatures because they're too strange, or powerful actions or emotions because they're too powerful and are beyond my abilities with descriptive words to capture them. At that point, I frequently shift into using analogies, which is dancing around my subject rather than describing it directly in order to, as you put it, paint a picture or create a feeling.

I think writing really is an art form. Choosing just the right words to capture what one is seeking to portray can create something very beautiful or splendid. Or something grotesque, but I try to send positive messages in my writing rather than negative ones.

Our writing is always influenced by our perspectives on life. For instance, Aevor in your book talks about the right to freedom and happiness, and his own rejection of slavery and of those who "treat others poorly." Since you set him up as a good and wise mentor, his words about morality come across as being your views. That's a message in the story, and a positive one. Because our writing is influenced by our perspectives on life, it will often involve our own ideologies here or there (though not always, and of course one should try not to read too much into a work). That will come out as a message, a part of the author's belief system. And many times they won't even be placed there on purpose, and often not with the intent of swaying other people. But they'll have some kind of effect on readers regardless, whether large or small.

I tend not to judge a book, movie or painting negatively just because it might include very nasty things, for nasty things can be used to enhance a positive message. What matters to me is the nature of the message itself, whether something good and true is being revealed or something false and potentially destructive.

Art can be used to send horrible messages that ought not to be sent and may harm viewers, or it can be used to send good messages. Books are like paintings in this way, able to send wonderful messages or sick ones, or anything in between. But they are art.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

"Yes, but sir," a much younger Sky had asked, "How shall I know who is 'pretty'?"

The Master had laughed at the boy's question and replied, "Trust me, in a few years you'll know."

As Sky gazed up at the girl's fair features, her dark brown hair, and her deep brown eyes, he realized what the Master had meant.

"Oh, uh...Hi?" Sky said, his face getting strangely hot.

I like this part a lot .

Originally Posted by Tuinor

(You asked for it!)

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Actually, I haven't really completed any that's probably due to the fact that I can never really leave something as is. I always tend to try and over complicate it or go into far too much depth, which I love doing, but it ends up being my ultimate downfall.

That's too bad. I don't know what to suggest there.

Going into a lot of depth is cool and valuable, but if it ends up messing up the story . . . hmm. That's a tough one. I expect that what you're doing now is probably best.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

So far I am working in four other works (not related to Sky Blue). Actually, these all take place in a world called Terracia.

The first (and by far the longest) is untitled (can't think of a name after five years of writing!), but it's about a young Ilndir (one of three races I thought up for Terracia) who finds that he's a descendant of an ancient Prophet-King type character who vanished sometime in the prehistories of the world. The story follows an ongoing struggle with the demonic forces in the world and his personal struggles as he accends to power.

That really sounds like a cool story.

Wow, five years? How long is the book? And are you still working on it?

Originally Posted by Tuinor

The second is called the Legend of the Three Swords and follows a young Undar (another of the races). In this the main character is a wandering stranger who is fleeing a painful past. In the beginning of the legend he is met by another prophet-like character who ironically bestows upon him Hope, one of three powerfull swords forged from the broken shards of Almighty's blade. The other two are Faith and Love, and the story follows him as he tries to find the other two wielders of the blades (there is one for each of the three races).

I like the Biblical connection there. Positive messages!

Originally Posted by Tuinor

The third is called the Legend of the Red-Eyed Assassin and follows the character who's name I stole and now use on Entmoot. In it a Ilndir prince (Tuinor) is born with a strange darkness within him, and for his "deformity" he is banished by his father. This leads up to his evntually becoming an ally with a sub race of the Ilndiri and the enemies of his father. He commits many heinous acts and sins agaisnt his people for which he is cursed with the sight of blood. His red irises cause people to begin to reffer to him as Tuinor the Red Eyed.

This sounds a lot darker, and darkness certainly can enhance the story. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

The fourth is simply a record of the prehistories of the world. It covers way too much for me to say much more, but I am thinking of perhaps posting it on Entmoot. So you may get to read it after all.

Writing those histories certainly can be fun! I greatly enjoyed doing that in the roleplaying website I helped make, Atharon.

In my own world I've had less luck, though perhaps that's because I've applied less effort. My histories tend to get busty.

Rather than just describing my historical events, I've decided to write some of the biggest transitions of my world's history in action adventure books.

My most recent book, one that will soon be finished, takes place during some of the highly important events of the ancient history of my world. The world-changing characters of my world's ancient history are the main characters of this book, for it is set during those old events. Characters to future books set thousands of years in the future will consider the events of this book to be ancient history (although some future characters might view a good deal of the story I'm writing to be mere mythology, which will be great ). It's all coming out very well, so I'm happy.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I'm sorry I babbled on for so long about that, but I do really love Terracia.(Even though its name is funny) Eh-hem! Now, where were we...

It's great to really enjoy our worlds!

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Yeah, stagnant stories do cause one to loose interest, fast. It's just, when I write I want people to believe that these are real people and not just characters. I know they're not, but that's part of storytelling. Still, perhaps it's good just to have an introductory dialogue so that people can establish that "Ok, this guy is so-and-so," and leave the rest up to paraphrases.

Maybe. An introductory dialogue is good, of course, and showing future conversations is also very good. I just would avoid writing out anything that might bore readers, or worse, bore you. That kind of material should probably all be left to paraphrases.

I understand what you're trying to do, though. Creating characters that people can relate to is important. I guess J.K. Rowling would be a good author whose work to consider when trying for this. Have you read the Harry Potter books? There's brilliant character development in there, and the characters are natural and very easy to relate to without ever being boring at all. I'd carefully consider her books if I were you, to try to figure out how J.K. Rowling makes it all work so well.


I look forward to reading some more of your newest book!

[Tuinor]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

By the way, I'm somewhat confused about what happened to Liera. Was she Aisha in disguise? I don't think so, but I'm a little unsure. What happened to Liera is not clear to me.

Actually, she was. It was revealed during the dream sequence, which is probably why some missed it. Also, there wasn't much to go by, just an exchange of comments between Aisha and Sky. Here is the part:

Originally Posted by Tuinor

“L-Liera?” he asked, coughing on his own blood.
“I’m so sorry, Sky,” she replied, a tear running down her cheek.
“No, no this isn’t right,” Sky cried as he fell to his knees.

I'm sorry if you were left unsure by it. Do you think I should alter it to say just a bit more?

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

So now I just let the characters run the story, doing what they naturally would do, and I tag along behind them chronicling their actions.

I used to write like that. It's kinda what I'm doing with Sky Blue, though there is still a plot in my head. I find that the plot helps me progress faster, and characters come easy to me. I find that once I create a character I have a pretty good idea as to how they'll act to certain things. I guess it's just a talent.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I keep running into situations in my writing where I can't describe strange creatures because they're too strange, or powerful actions or emotions because they're too powerful and are beyond my abilities with descriptive words to capture them. At that point, I frequently shift into using analogies, which is dancing around my subject rather than describing it directly in order to, as you put it, paint a picture or create a feeling.

That's the same reason I began using them. (Nice analogy! I can dance somewhat)

Sorry, but I gotta go again. I'll finish replying later.

[Tuinor]

Okay, I can finnish now.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I think writing really is an art form. Choosing just the right words to capture what one is seeking to portray can create something very beautiful or splendid. Or something grotesque, but I try to send positive messages in my writing rather than negative ones.

I agree, it is an art. A picture and a thousand words are equal, they say. My story should be several frames by now.

I try to send positive messages in my stories as well, and those are often seen in the powers of redemption in my books.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I like this part a lot .

I drew upon personal experiences for that. I guess most guys know how that feels, through, sadly, I think most of them forget it.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Going into a lot of depth is cool and valuable, but if it ends up messing up the story . . . hmm. That's a tough one. I expect that what you're doing now is probably best.

Yeah, and, hopefully, if I ever get it published someone will be wise enough to edit out all of the excess stuff! I'm too lazy to, and plus I've already gone through all the work putting it in there!

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

That really sounds like a cool story.

Wow, five years? How long is the book? And are you still working on it?

Thanks, I hope one day you can read all of it and make a final analysis.

How long is it? I don't know, honestly. Since my old computer on which I was typing it couldn't handle it all on a single document I split it into several documents each assigned to a chapter. I've got about eleven chapters with about fifteen pages per chapter, so I'd say it's roughly 160-170 pages long. But that isn't counting the endless pages of revision and editing I've removed from the main story. I'd say there's more pages there than in the book itself.

I still am working on it, and believe me, there's much to do. Just recently I've altered an important character's name (It went from being Areghost, which is far too similar to Aregorn, to Argost, which is shorter and less similar to King Elessar's), but now I'll have to go through every chapter and alter it in every place it appears. (Oh, the agony!) It's stuff like this that has caused my progress to lag somewhat.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Writing those histories certainly can be fun! I greatly enjoyed doing that in the roleplaying website I helped make, Atharon.

I've visited Atharon once or twice but I haven't tried playing there. I enjoyed reading about the different cultures and religions of it's peoples, mostly because I found those hard subjects to cover in my books. I'll have to check it out again.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

In my own world I've had less luck, though perhaps that's because I've applied less effort. My histories tend to get busty.

Histories are great because they lend a certain sense of reality to one's creation, however, I do find them especially difficult to write.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Rather than just describing my historical events, I've decided to write some of the biggest transitions of my world's history in action adventure books.

Sounds like a plan. Frank Herbert wrote the Dune series in much the same way.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

I understand what you're trying to do, though. Creating characters that people can relate to is important. I guess J.K. Rowling would be a good author whose work to consider when trying for this. Have you read the Harry Potter books? There's brilliant character development in there, and the characters are natural and very easy to relate to without ever being boring at all. I'd carefully consider her books if I were you, to try to figure out how J.K. Rowling makes it all work so well.

I haven't read her books, but I have heard that her character developement is "brilliant." It's been discussed on the "Writing a Book" thread that she based some of her characters on people close to her, which is what I did with my first book.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

It's great to really enjoy our worlds!

I wouldn't write about them otherwise!



Whew! That took precisely an hour. Have fun responding! I don't see how you can write such long posts.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Actually, she was. It was revealed during the dream sequence, which is probably why some missed it. Also, there wasn't much to go by, just an exchange of comments between Aisha and Sky. Here is the part:

Yeah, that went by a little quickly. It's a cool plot twist, by the way . It took me by surprise.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I'm sorry if you were left unsure by it. Do you think I should alter it to say just a bit more?

You could. Part of the reason I was a little confused was that it went by pretty fast. That's kind of logical considering the pace of the scene, but just a little bit more in there might help. But another thing was that I wasn't entirely sure that if it was Leira, it was real. Because Sky says a moment later that it isn't right. I knew that that was because he was being given a test-dream, but I wasn't sure if Aisha might have made up Leira's betrayal for the dream.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I used to write like that. It's kinda what I'm doing with Sky Blue, though there is still a plot in my head. I find that the plot helps me progress faster, and characters come easy to me. I find that once I create a character I have a pretty good idea as to how they'll act to certain things. I guess it's just a talent.

Maybe. It's a good way, anyhow, if one can do it that way. There are other ways also of doing it well. Yours is kind of the reverse technique from that which I'm using. I write characters first and plot later, and you plot and then characters. Both methods can make a good story .

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I drew upon personal experiences for that. I guess most guys know how that feels, through, sadly, I think most of them forget it.

Yeah, it's easy to relate to this. I had a crush on someone once, in that way. I hate that . It made me quite pathetic and wrong-footed.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Yeah, and, hopefully, if I ever get it published someone will be wise enough to edit out all of the excess stuff! I'm too lazy to, and plus I've already gone through all the work putting it in there!

When you put it into your computer though, it'll be easier to just drop parts that you find boring. And I wouldn't leave it there just because it's already written, myself. Though I understand that the temptation would be greater if you're writing it out by hand. Resist! Endure! Nobility!

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I still am working on it, and believe me, there's much to do. Just recently I've altered an important character's name (It went from being Areghost, which is far too similar to Aregorn, to Argost, which is shorter and less similar to King Elessar's), but now I'll have to go through every chapter and alter it in every place it appears. (Oh, the agony!) It's stuff like this that has caused my progress to lag somewhat.

It should be possible to press Command F in your document, or select some other option in your control bar on the top of your screen, and just order it to find Areghost. If it's at all like my computer, you can then hit the Replace button and type down Argost, and then click "change all". Your computer probably doesn't work exactly the same as mine, but there may well be some option like that.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I've visited Atharon once or twice but I haven't tried playing there. I enjoyed reading about the different cultures and religions of it's peoples, mostly because I found those hard subjects to cover in my books. I'll have to check it out again.

If you decide to, it would be very fun to roleplay with you there.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Sounds like a plan.

It's a bit more than a plan. It's 7/8 of a book right now .

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I haven't read her books, but I have heard that her character developement is "brilliant." It's been discussed on the "Writing a Book" thread that she based some of her characters on people close to her, which is what I did with my first book.

That's good. For the technique, it's worth reading some of those books anyway. Plus they're certainly splendid enough reading to deserve reading on their own merit . That's my opinion, anyway, but you of course don't have to do as I suggest.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

Whew! That took precisely an hour. Have fun responding! I don't see how you can write such long posts.

I'm a fast typist- between 60 and 70 words per minute. But I do sometimes take many hours in responding to posts. I've never done that in the Writing Forum as far as I can recall, but in the debate threads in General Messages, I certainly have.

[Acalewia]

I really love where your story is heading. I can't wait for more. I loved your twists. Keep up the good work

[Tuinor]

Sorry I haven't responded much here. I've been very busy recently, but I hope things will slow down soon. Thanks for your patience.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

You could. Part of the reason I was a little confused was that it went by pretty fast. That's kind of logical considering the pace of the scene, but just a little bit more in there might help. But another thing was that I wasn't entirely sure that if it was Leira, it was real. Because Sky says a moment later that it isn't right. I knew that that was because he was being given a test-dream, but I wasn't sure if Aisha might have made up Leira's betrayal for the dream.

I have altered the scene just a bit, but it's proving difficult to do without slowing it down far too much.

Aisha making up Leira's betrayal? That would be quite a twist as well! I didn't think of that possibility at all.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Yeah, it's easy to relate to this. I had a crush on someone once, in that way. I hate that . It made me quite pathetic and wrong-footed.

It can be very intimidating, for sure.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Though I understand that the temptation would be greater if you're writing it out by hand. Resist! Endure! Nobility!

And do you know how many hand-cramps I went through to write this thing?!

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

It's a bit more than a plan. It's 7/8 of a book right now

Do you plan on having it published? I hope so, 'cause I'd like to read it.

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

If you decide to, it would be very fun to roleplay with you there.

It sounds like a plan! (if I can find more time, that is)

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Plus they're certainly splendid enough reading to deserve reading on their own merit .

I'm planning on reading them after I finish The Butlerian Jihad and it's sequels. (Which, consequently, will take more time!)

Originally Posted by Acalewia

I really love where your story is heading. I can't wait for more. I loved your twists. Keep up the good work

Thank you. I love to write twists, but I'm afraid I might overdo it with this story. Who knows? I hope I will get more feedback from you all.

BTW, I would like some input on this newest post. It's got a bit of "mushiness" in it, which I was never really good at , so if anyone has any corrections or advice on writing such scenes, I'd be more than willing to take them.

Thanks!

[Acalewia]

You for some reason Snow's dream seems like forshadowing to me, you know a bit of dramatic irony. And the new part about Sky. very interesting. I love how you menton the Feints but don't explain right away. Keeps the suspense going and me asking myself who they are.


As for romantic scenes, I'm not the best at them, but I think that scene was just fine. Of course, Leif might have a few paragraphs to say on that



On the comment earlier about Atharon, I think you would enjoy it. And I understand the time thing. Not enough hours in the day

[Tuinor]

Originally Posted by Acalewia

As for romantic scenes, I'm not the best at them, but I think that scene was just fine.

I hope it was. I don't want to spoil a character's credibility towards a reader on something like this.

Originally Posted by Acalewia

I love how you menton the Feints but don't explain right away. Keeps the suspense going and me asking myself who they are.

To tell the truth, I have been asking myself who they are for sometime as well. Up until recently, I have had a very small grasp of their roles and attributes, but at least I have a clear view now of what they'll be like. I really hope everyone will enjoy them.

[Acalewia]

Daker is no ordinary dwarf, is he? That will be a blow to Sa'if's ego

[Nuelbar]

I really like your story Tuinor! It is very interesting and keeps me on "the edge of my seat." I am looking forward to more of your posts. I was also sort of confused about whether liera was aisha because when Sky was following Liera, Aisha was in the shadow's following them. So I am/was confused. I also think that you did a good job on the "mushy" seen.

What helps you come up with new characters and their attitudes and their names, Tuinor ?

[Tuinor]

Originally Posted by Acalewia

Daker is no ordinary dwarf, is he? That will be a blow to Sa'if's ego

I don't want to spoil anything , but I will say, yeah, he's pretty ticked-off.

Originally Posted by Nuelbar

I really like your story Tuinor! It is very interesting and keeps me on "the edge of my seat." I am looking forward to more of your posts. I was also sort of confused about whether liera was aisha because when Sky was following Liera, Aisha was in the shadow's following them. So I am/was confused. I also think that you did a good job on the "mushy" seen.

Thanks for the complement! I know that the scenes early on were a tad bit confusing, and that might be the story's biggest vice. I'll probably have to do a lot of editing once I'm through with it (but that doesn't look like it'll be anytime soon ).

The "figure in the shadows" that Sky and Liera saw just before going into the house was Aevor. That's why later Aisha goes out to meet him.

On the mushy scene, no comment.

Originally Posted by Nuelbar

What helps you come up with new characters and their attitudes and their names, Tuinor ?

With this story I've had to fill in a lot of character niches (such as "the Seven Dwarves" that I'm just starting to introduce) so, it's been more of a puzzle to make characters that will fit into the roles they need to fill. The only characters that I haven't had to do this with so far have been Aevor, Sa'if, Aisha, and Jahud, and consequently I find them a lot more interesting.

When making characters like these, I tend to use their names to try to get an understanding of their persona. It's kind of like meeting the character and getting a feeling of who they are from knowing their names.

As for the characters who must fill in a role for the story, I've just been trying to develope them by imagining what experiences they've been through and sculpting them into the results of those experiences.

That's probably not much help if you're trying to develope your own characters, huh? I'm sorry if it isn't. If you're looking for more help, you might want to start a thread. I'd like to see a character creation thread. Either way, I wish you luck and, once again, thanks for reading!

[Acalewia]

There was a character profile thread here.

Originally Posted by Tuinor

I don't want to spoil anything , but I will say, yeah, he's pretty ticked-off.

I can imagine



EDIT: I found it: Character File

[Tuinor]

I just realized I that I copied the opening phrase from your Dragonmaiden Discussion, Acalewia. I'm really embarrassed over that. It was unintentional.

Originally Posted by Acalewia

There was a character profile thread here.

EDIT: I found it: Character File

I remember that! I posted about Aen there. It's been awhile, though, since anyone posted there.