Refugees going north

***Valandil*** · 06-22-2012, 10:48 PM

The refugees coming north at the start of LOTR... going up to the Shire borders and also to Bree. Where do you think they came from?

It hardly seems like Sauron would have disturbed much of anything further from Mordor than Rohan? But if these folks were from east of Rohan, it's hard to imagine them traveling so far, or passing through Rohan. Besides... Gondor is east of Rohan!

Maybe they were from the Enedwaith area, west of Dunland? Was Saruman causing enough disruption in the area already that people who might have lived there felt uncomfortable enough to move?

There doesn't seem to be much late 3rd Age civilization north of Bree anyway. Where do you think these people ended up?

GrayMouser · 06-23-2012, 03:19 AM

I always assumed that they'd been stirred up by Saruman, using the newly-emboldened Dunlendings and his new Uruk-Hai.

As to who they were- a mix of the original inhabitants, remnants of the Men of Arnor, people of Rohan who had moved farther away from the lands actually controlled by Meduseld, refugees from Gondor fleeing various troubles (esp. raids by the Corsairs?)

Maybe from the Isen River valley?

Still, you'd think once crossing the Greyflood they'd be far enough away- why keep going north?

Findegil · 08-08-2012, 10:45 AM

I think they were Dunelandings. Confirmed is this by the comapnie of the spy from Saruman that was captured by the witch-king and send to Bree.

Why going on after crossing Greyflood? Maybe they search for more inhabited lands, for a comunity that would be willing to take them up. That is at least what is feared in Bree.

Respectfuly
Findegil

***Earniel*** · 08-08-2012, 03:00 PM

I don't recall whether the refugees came only from the south to the Shire. But I would suspect some of the people living between Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains may have found those lands increasingly hostile during those days. The old Road would have taken them to Bree. These people aren't mentioned by name or appear to have a named lord, but I recall seeing here and there in Tolkien's work mentions of people (I assume Men) living at the edges of Mirkwood.

Lotesse · 08-10-2012, 07:48 AM

Yup, I completely concur. What Earniel said. Up there. Above this entry. I've been doing a re-read of LotR lately, this August, because why not? and the more I read this brilliantly scribed, rich and vibrant tome, the deeper I sink into its fantastical, magical and oh, so real, delicious world.

I think you put the hammer to the nail on this one, tho, Earniel-bella. I agree, about the refugees.

***Earniel*** · 08-11-2012, 06:08 AM

Reminds me that I ought to do a re-read myself in the near future. Because I didn't check yet whether the refugees were only coming from the south below the Shire. To me it seems logical that people from near Mirkwood would have fled too around that time, but I don't know whether the text will back me up on that.

But that Dunlanders or people of that region were also moving north seems certain.

06-22-2012, 10:48 PM	#1
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Refugees going north The refugees coming north at the start of LOTR... going up to the Shire borders and also to Bree. Where do you think they came from? It hardly seems like Sauron would have disturbed much of anything further from Mordor than Rohan? But if these folks were from east of Rohan, it's hard to imagine them traveling so far, or passing through Rohan. Besides... Gondor is east of Rohan! Maybe they were from the Enedwaith area, west of Dunland? Was Saruman causing enough disruption in the area already that people who might have lived there felt uncomfortable enough to move? There doesn't seem to be much late 3rd Age civilization north of Bree anyway. Where do you think these people ended up? __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

06-23-2012, 03:19 AM	#2
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	I always assumed that they'd been stirred up by Saruman, using the newly-emboldened Dunlendings and his new Uruk-Hai. As to who they were- a mix of the original inhabitants, remnants of the Men of Arnor, people of Rohan who had moved farther away from the lands actually controlled by Meduseld, refugees from Gondor fleeing various troubles (esp. raids by the Corsairs?) Maybe from the Isen River valley? Still, you'd think once crossing the Greyflood they'd be far enough away- why keep going north? __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

08-08-2012, 03:00 PM	#4
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I don't recall whether the refugees came only from the south to the Shire. But I would suspect some of the people living between Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains may have found those lands increasingly hostile during those days. The old Road would have taken them to Bree. These people aren't mentioned by name or appear to have a named lord, but I recall seeing here and there in Tolkien's work mentions of people (I assume Men) living at the edges of Mirkwood. __________________ We are not things.

08-10-2012, 07:48 AM	#5
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Yup, I completely concur. What Earniel said. Up there. Above this entry. I've been doing a re-read of LotR lately, this August, because why not? and the more I read this brilliantly scribed, rich and vibrant tome, the deeper I sink into its fantastical, magical and oh, so real, delicious world. I think you put the hammer to the nail on this one, tho, Earniel-bella. I agree, about the refugees. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

08-11-2012, 06:08 AM	#6
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Reminds me that I ought to do a re-read myself in the near future. Because I didn't check yet whether the refugees were only coming from the south below the Shire. To me it seems logical that people from near Mirkwood would have fled too around that time, but I don't know whether the text will back me up on that. But that Dunlanders or people of that region were also moving north seems certain. __________________ We are not things.

08-08-2012, 10:45 AM	#3
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	I think they were Dunelandings. Confirmed is this by the comapnie of the spy from Saruman that was captured by the witch-king and send to Bree. Why going on after crossing Greyflood? Maybe they search for more inhabited lands, for a comunity that would be willing to take them up. That is at least what is feared in Bree. Respectfuly Findegil

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