Refugees going north

[Valandil]

The refugees coming north at the start of LOTR... going up to the Shire borders and also to Bree. Where do you think they came from?

It hardly seems like Sauron would have disturbed much of anything further from Mordor than Rohan? But if these folks were from east of Rohan, it's hard to imagine them traveling so far, or passing through Rohan. Besides... Gondor is east of Rohan!

Maybe they were from the Enedwaith area, west of Dunland? Was Saruman causing enough disruption in the area already that people who might have lived there felt uncomfortable enough to move?

There doesn't seem to be much late 3rd Age civilization north of Bree anyway. Where do you think these people ended up?

[GrayMouser]

I always assumed that they'd been stirred up by Saruman, using the newly-emboldened Dunlendings and his new Uruk-Hai.

As to who they were- a mix of the original inhabitants, remnants of the Men of Arnor, people of Rohan who had moved farther away from the lands actually controlled by Meduseld, refugees from Gondor fleeing various troubles (esp. raids by the Corsairs?)

Maybe from the Isen River valley?

Still, you'd think once crossing the Greyflood they'd be far enough away- why keep going north?

[Findegil]

I think they were Dunelandings. Confirmed is this by the comapnie of the spy from Saruman that was captured by the witch-king and send to Bree.

Why going on after crossing Greyflood? Maybe they search for more inhabited lands, for a comunity that would be willing to take them up. That is at least what is feared in Bree.

Respectfuly
Findegil

[Earniel]

I don't recall whether the refugees came only from the south to the Shire. But I would suspect some of the people living between Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains may have found those lands increasingly hostile during those days. The old Road would have taken them to Bree. These people aren't mentioned by name or appear to have a named lord, but I recall seeing here and there in Tolkien's work mentions of people (I assume Men) living at the edges of Mirkwood.

[Lotesse]

Yup, I completely concur. What Earniel said. Up there. Above this entry. I've been doing a re-read of LotR lately, this August, because why not? and the more I read this brilliantly scribed, rich and vibrant tome, the deeper I sink into its fantastical, magical and oh, so real, delicious world.

I think you put the hammer to the nail on this one, tho, Earniel-bella. I agree, about the refugees.

[Earniel]

Reminds me that I ought to do a re-read myself in the near future. Because I didn't check yet whether the refugees were only coming from the south below the Shire. To me it seems logical that people from near Mirkwood would have fled too around that time, but I don't know whether the text will back me up on that.

But that Dunlanders or people of that region were also moving north seems certain.

[Bounder]

first post, so be gentle...

with regards to those looking to leave the South from east of the Misty mountains, wouldn't a) they be extremely unlikely to either go around the southern end of the range and near Isengard, or to cross the MM much further north, infested as it was by Orcs? and b) we know that at that stage there were reasonably solid bastions of Elves, Men and Dwarves - the Lonely Mountain, Dale, Esgaroth, Thranduils kingdom and the Iron hills etc - in the north east of ME, it would be far easier to get to them from anywhere near Rohan or further north than it would to cross the MM and go up to Bree/the Shire.

i think that refugees coming from the southwest is far more likely - given the problems with Corsairs, Dunlendings, random Orcs and the more conventional war in Gondor and Rohan, and the pattern throughout ME of small self-sufficient communities living their lives well way from the spotlight and answering only to themselves, its probable that there would be 'forgotten' peoples all over the former Eriador area, all of who would of had the disadvantages of being to small to defend themselves, but the advantage of the autonomy to say 'sod this, we're leaving'...

if the Shire, a society perhaps 2 or 3 thousand strong on a main east-west road, had managed to avoid publicity, then communities of a couple of hundred eeking out an agrarian/fishing existance in the middle of nowhere would have disppeared off the map.

[Alcuin]

I’m re-reading LotR for the umpteenth time now. My vote is for Dunlendings.

• Findegil mentions the Southron spy, whom we know to be Dunlending (and maybe part Orc) from “Hunt for the Ring” in Unfinished Tales. He had arrived with other “Southrons”, and it might make sense that they were also Dunlendings.
• Saruman sent his “Ruffians” to the Shire not long after Frodo departed: Farmer Cotton told Frodo they began to arrive at the end of 3018 (“Souring of the Shire”). These were undoubtedly Dunlendings, though some were intermixed with Orcs.
• Saruman had begun sending spies and scouts to the Shire and surrounding region after he was noticed in his investigation of pipeweed and mistaken for Gandalf. In Appendix B, for the year 2953,

  Being jealous and afraid of Gandalf [Saruman] sets spies to watch all his movements; and notes his interest in the Shire. He soon begins to keep agents in Bree and the Southfarthing.

  As time wore on, he probably encouraged select migration into old Arnor, with a view to overrunning the territory later, as he almost accomplished in the Shire.
• Pity the decent Dunlending! Unwelcome in Rohan, Saruman as tyrant threatened life and limb. These were no doubt fleeing for their lives.
• The Dunlendings knew all about the old North-South Road (“the Greenway”) between the Númenórean kingdoms: it ran right through the western part of Dunland.
• Tharbad, where the North-South Road crossed the Gwathló, was inhabited until 2912, only 106 years earlier, when heavy rains ruined the ancient bridge during the Fell Winter. (White wolves attacked the Shire when the Brandywine froze; Bilbo could remember it.) That would have happened in the days of the memories of the grandparents of old and middle-aged Dunlendings, and so only a generation or two removed from living memory.

But it’s worth considering whether there were also folk from Rohan – from Westfold, for instance – or even from Gondor (Anórien, perhaps) – among the refugees.