silvan elves in the silmarillion

[afro-elf]

it talks about the eldar and sindar

does it mention the silvan(avari)
elves

[Ñólendil]

Silvan does not = Avarin. The Nandor are mentioned and talked about in the Silmarillion, they made up much of the 'Silvan' people. The Wood-elves of the Woodland Realm and Lothlorien were a mixed lot.

Anyway the settlements began when Denwego* of the Host of Olwë in the Teleri led a 'defection', refusing to pass the terrifying Misty Mountains. Many remained in the wooded valley where they were in camp (Lindórinan, later Lórinand, then Laurelindórinand and finally called Lóthlórien, before it faded), some crossed the river and dwelt age-long in the Vales of Anduin, some passed southward along the river. Of these last some eventually entered Eriador, and it was from these Elves that the Green-elves of Ossiriand came (led by Denethor son of Denwego). These all were the Ndandôi ('those who go back on their word or decision').**

Anyway, back to the Vales of Anduin. After the Fall of Doriath some Grey-elves moved eastward. Oropher (grand-father of Legolas) led a handful of these and settled among the Nandor, who previously had no chieftains. The Grey-elves (wishing to return to their woodland life) mingled with them and ruled them. Some time in the Second Age a tribe of Avari (who called themselves the Penni) moving westwards and settled in the Vales as well, mingling with the others. Even Noldor mingled with this people when they came among the Elves of Lindóriand after the Fall of Eregion.

At some point before the War of the Last Alliance (I don't remember when), Oropher moved up north to escape the Shadow that was Sauron. It was him or his son Thranduil that excavated the 'Halls of the Elvenking' in imitation of Menegroth.

All this info. was at one time gathered from The Silmarillion, the Appendices to Galadriel and Celeborn in Unfinished Tales and the essay Quendi and Eldar in War of the Jewels.

*This is a Common Eldarin name, it was remembered in Quenya as Lenwë and in Sindarin as Denweg.

**In Quenya they were the 'Nandor'.

[afro-elf]

so the silvan elves started out as Teleri and were side tracked

so they were still eligible to go over seas because they started the great journey?

besides the penni is there any talk of avari on any importance

[Ñólendil]

Six Avarin tribes that moved westwards are named: the Kindi, Cuind, Hwenti, Windan, Kinn-lai and the Penni. Not much (save the names themselves) is known about these tribes. They were of Wilderland and Eriador, or anyway they had gradually moved there from the far East, and were Nelyarin Avari: of the same Racial origin as the Lindar or Teleri. Helge Fauskanger examines these names in Avarin - All Six Words on the Ardalambion.

Legolas took ship in IV 120, he was a wood-elf. Or anyway he considered himself one, and lived among the Silvan folk. He was definitely Grey-elven, but he may have had Nandorin or Avarin blood in his veins (depending on who Thranduil and Oropher married). I imagine that any Elf with Eldarin blood could sail into the West while alive. When dead all Elvish spirits were summoned to Mandos.

[afro-elf]

thanks for providing the named of those tribes

I leaning toward the dark skinned avari for my character when the game comes out. i think its the most believable way to get a dark skinned elf in.

you mentioned that the penni came west in the second age would this be true of the other tribes?

[Ñólendil]

Certainly. All Elves who awoke awoke in the very far East near the Water of Awakening, it takes a journey to reach the Misty Mountains.

There is another tribe of Avari living in the West mentioned, you may be interested to know (since you seem so immensely interested in Elves). In the great forest (that is not a proper name, I don't remember what it is called, you can see it on a Silmarillion map) in the south of Beleriand there lived a Tatyarin tribe of the Avari, akin to the Noldor. These, however, were very secretive and hostile to their kin, and jealous of them, who they accused of arrogance. I don't know what became of them after the First Age.

Oh I get it. I guess you mean the 'Second Age' part. No, not all of the Avari moved west in the Second Age. It seemed to me that in the relevent passages in Quendi and Eldar, the Nelyarin Avari only came among their kin during the Second Age, but as I have said there were some of the Tatyarin kind in Beleriand during the First Age.

[afro-elf]

even though I think it is absurd tolkien ME is based on our world


well there are "elves" in most cultures if not all.

so i can use the jinn or the anglo word genie for my

rhosglawellon

white wolf has a group called eshu supposedly african fey

but i have not encountered the word outside of their system

[rashbold]

The Silmarillion conveyed the impression that the Avari are at least for the most part, of the Nelyar. However, the essay Quendi and Eldar made it clear that half of the Tatyar were in fact Avari (and the other half became the Ñoldor). None of the Minyar (>Vanyar) were Avari. As a matter of fact, some of the Sindar had contended that the Ñoldor are in fact Avari in inclination, which is the reason why they went back to Middle-earth: they need more room to quarrel in. As a matter of fact, Eöl was an Avar of the Tatyar, which is why he was skilled in craft, enhanced by his contacts with the Dwarves. Of course, this perhaps explained his attitude towards his Amanya counterparts.
The Avari, of course, eventually travelled westwards, even to Beleriand, but there existed an animosity between the different races therein. As for the Silvan Elves, they are for the most part Nandorin (which does not discount their intermingling with the Avari who may have eventually dwelt among them). However, it must be noted that the major Silvan kingdoms immediately west of the Hithaeglir were in fact ruled by the Sindar (Thranduil was a Sinda), or originally so (as in the case of Lórien before Celeborn and Galadriel).

[afro-elf]

thanks a lot