Did Luke kill the guards in RotJ?

[Alcuin]

The repeating pattern of Jedi and Sith activities is a series of plots inside plots inside plots. Look briefly at the scheme in Jabba’s palace.

Lando enters service in the palace guard. That gives the group an understanding of the layout of the palace (actually a still-active monastery of Tatooine mystics), its defenses, who the personages are, what kinds of traps await, and so forth. We should be certain that if Lando had been able to escape with Han during this early phase, he would have done so.

Then the two droids are sent into the palace. R2D2 has the light saber hidden inside, of course; but the usefulness of C-3PO should not be disregarded. C-3PO is an accomplished liar, and part of the reason for sending him there might have been misdirection; in addition, as Jabba’s translator, he was privy to most of the conversations and meetings in which the gangster participated, no doubt gathering intelligence useful to Luke and his fellow conspirators.

Next, Leia enters the complex in disguise with Chewie as her “prisoner.” Having established her bona fides as a ruthless character with the thermal detonator, she actually makes the first attempt to free Han; something, however, has alerted Jabba to the operation, and he captures Leia. Nevertheless, we should not doubt that this was the first layer of a plan to retrieve Han. At this stage, Han has been removed from the carbonite, and his body has time to recover somewhat and reacclimate to a normal environment.

Now Luke himself enters the arena. We are never told that Luke has entered the building before, but we can suspect that he had been there on a scouting mission, whether in company with Lando or by himself. Regardless, Luke confronts Jabba and attempts to convince him to release Han, offering bribes and threatening him. Jabba recognizes the family resemblance Luke bears to his father, whom Jabba knew, and Anakin’s career as a Jedi was no secret to the Hutts or anyone else on Tatooine. Interestingly, the mind trick fails on Jabba just as it did on Watto; but again, this is still a legitimate attempt to free Han – and Leia and Chewie – from Jabba’s clutches.

The final attack on Jabba at the Sarlacc’s Pit of Carkoon is well-known. What is not often considered is that this was the fourth layer of an intricate plan to obtain Han’s freedom: first was Lando’s espionage, then Leia’s attempt, Luke’s first attempt, and finally the battle at Carkoon.

Similarly layered attacks take place when Obi Wan and Anakin attack the Invisible Hand; when Darth Maul attacks Padme and the Jedi in the palace hanger complex on Naboo; Darth Sidious’ entire career, including his seduction of Anakin Skywalker; and the intricate trap Vader laid to capture Luke in Cloud City. Both Jedi and Sith were using the Force for knowledge of future events, and laying plans to meet every eventuality before any of these events took place.

[XRogue]

I never got the impression that Jabba knew Anakin or saw him close enough to catch a family resemblance to Luke. Perhaps the name might ring a bell after the Boonta Eve race, but then again, for all we know, Skywalker was the Outer Rim equivalent of Smith so far as surnames go.

Now if Jabba had seen/heard of the Hero without Fear on the news...I might buy that he would notice a resemblance to Luke...but he would probably not have heard of or seen Luke before that day at the palace. Luke was a farm kid, grew up out there in the middle of no place on the Lars homestead. And you can bet the farm Owen and Beru would have kept Luke from getting around much.

Far as the dark side stuff is concerned, I was always looking for signs of it after Yoda's warning. I figured if Vader was telling the truth (and at first I figured he must be lying) it'd come out in Luke sooner or later.

[ayra]

[QUOTE=XRogue]I never got the impression that Jabba knew Anakin or saw him close enough to catch a family resemblance to Luke... [QUOTE]

Neither did I... But Anakin might have been a "close up" as in like on a datapad like his mom watched him and therefore Jabba could and might reconize him... Last names work well to. R2 told Jabba Luke's last name when he came as a gift.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Now Luke himself enters the arena. We are never told that Luke has entered the building before, but we can suspect that he had been there on a scouting mission, whether in company with Lando or by himself. Regardless, Luke confronts Jabba and attempts to convince him to release Han, offering bribes and threatening him. Jabba recognizes the family resemblance Luke bears to his father, whom Jabba knew, and Anakin’s career as a Jedi was no secret to the Hutts or anyone else on Tatooine. Interestingly, the mind trick fails on Jabba just as it did on Watto; but again, this is still a legitimate attempt to free Han – and Leia and Chewie – from Jabba’s clutches.

This is the only thing I'm not sure of; otherwise your analysis is good.
I'm not sure if I just haven't read enough Hutt history or something, but it never really seemed to me that Jabba was intelligent like that, making connections that stretching. He is canny, because is a gangster...

[hectorberlioz]

Neither did I... But Anakin might have been a "close up" as in like on a datapad like his mom watched him and therefore Jabba could and might reconize him... Last names work well to. R2 told Jabba Luke's last name when he came as a gift.

That's true about the last names, but are we to trust that Jabba remembered a mere podracer's name years later?

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

That's true about the last names, but are we to trust that Jabba remembered a mere podracer's name years later?

Perhaps not. But he would remember “The Hero With No Fear,” as Anakin the Jedi knight was known. And surely his criminal network would inform him that this was none other than the very boy who had unexpectedly won the best Boonta Eve podrace in memory. After all, crime lords must remain well-informed or they become – ahem – involuntary retired.

Anakin’s face and name were known throughout the old Republic as a hero of the Clone Wars. That name and face Jabba would no doubt recall, although Tatooine was not necessarily part of the Republic or was at best a “fringe” planet.

If there were a family resemblance, and certainly the surnames were the same, he might have paid attention. After all, Luke’s name by that time was not entirely unknown, either, and it is possible, <snark> however unlikely, </snark> that Jabba was aware that both Skywalkers had come from Tatooine. Moreover, Luke was a companion of Han Solo, against whom Jabba bore such a strong grudge. Perhaps he had not made an mental association between Han and Luke until he saw the holograph. Bobba Fett probably knew at least a bit about Vader’s plans to capture Skywalker; I wonder if he had not said something about how events were prepared in Cloud City, or if he held his peace: he unwisely hung out at Jabba’s Palace after collecting his bounty on Solo, and could tell Jabba what he chose to reveal. Perhaps Fett mused on how Vader might have failed to net his quarry after such an elaborate trap.

Vader and the Emperor might have successfully suppressed information about Anakin in the core worlds after their extermination of the Jedi, so that recollections of Anakin were no longer discussed there. But Tatooine was not a core world, and Jabba and his cronies possessed their own memories. They might have made some calculations of their own about who this new Skywalker could be, although they were most unlikely to know who Vader really was.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

In the first place, Luke doesn't really look like Anakin.

In the second place, I think it is a bit of a stretch to assume that Jabba would remember the name. Certainly not from Boonta Eve. I suppose it's possible he remembered him for what he did in the Clone Wars, but I think it unlikely, and it's certainly not something one can assume as a given in the building up a scenario such as you have.

[brownjenkins]

Of course, if Luke didn't kill them then, he certainly does when he has Leia point the blaster down and destroy the whole floating ship.

[me9996]

One thing about all this "Didn't Jabba remember the name 'Skywalker'?" stuff...

What if "Skywalker" is like "Smith" or "Jones" here, sorta one of those last names that you always hear of...

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by me9996

One thing about all this "Didn't Jabba remember the name 'Skywalker'?" stuff...

What if "Skywalker" is like "Smith" or "Jones" here, sorta one of those last names that you always hear of...

It could be, but it sure hasn't been cultivated by any of the Star Wars novelists I know of...that is, beyond the Luke and Mara marriage...

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Of course, if Luke didn't kill them then, he certainly does when he has Leia point the blaster down and destroy the whole floating ship.

No no, the Barge is different from the Palace, which is where the guards were.

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

In the first place, Luke doesn't really look like Anakin.

In the second place, I think it is a bit of a stretch to assume that Jabba would remember the name. Certainly not from Boonta Eve. I suppose it's possible he remembered him for what he did in the Clone Wars, but I think it unlikely, and it's certainly not something one can assume as a given in the building up a scenario such as you have.

You're just lealous because Alcuin is such an expert

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Perhaps not. But he would remember “The Hero With No Fear,” as Anakin the Jedi knight was known. And surely his criminal network would inform him that this was none other than the very boy who had unexpectedly won the best Boonta Eve podrace in memory. After all, crime lords must remain well-informed or they become – ahem – involuntary retired.

This is moe probable...that he'd heard of him from the Clone Wars.

[XRogue]

Ok, I might buy that Jabba would remember Anakin from the Clone Wars, but why should he assume Luke was Anakin's actual child? Old Republic Jedi (at least officially) had no children. If he thought they were related, it would be a more distant relationship.

Particularly as they don't look alike to me either. Unless they are whining.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by XRogue

Ok, I might buy that Jabba would remember Anakin from the Clone Wars, but why should he assume Luke was Anakin's actual child? Old Republic Jedi (at least officially) had no children. If he thought they were related, it would be a more distant relationship.

Particularly as they don't look alike to me either. Unless they are whining.

Good point, but on the other hand; is Jabba, a man of the underworld, really going to believe Jedis never cheat on their sacred codes?

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

No no, the Barge is different from the Palace, which is where the guards were.

Why is it "different"? It seems to follow along the same line. Do Jedi's only kill when they have to?

With Jabba, Bobba Fett and numerous others already dead, they could have easily escaped without destroying the barge, yet Luke specifically ensured it's destruction.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Why is it "different"? It seems to follow along the same line. Do Jedi's only kill when they have to?

No, I meant the location of the guards.

With Jabba, Bobba Fett and numerous others already dead, they could have easily escaped without destroying the barge, yet Luke specifically ensured it's destruction.

Well, it was a "spontaneous combat" decision , and therefore I'm sure there were no second thoughts.

[XRogue]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Good point, but on the other hand; is Jabba, a man of the underworld, really going to believe Jedis never cheat on their sacred codes?

Haha, good point, Hector.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by XRogue

Haha, good point, Hector.

Remember Siri? And Qui-gon had a few girlfriends himself

[brownjenkins]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Well, it was a "spontaneous combat" decision , and therefore I'm sure there were no second thoughts.

Spontaneous combat!?!

He asked Leia to point it at the barge and then jumped to safety!

It was definitely a revenge move.

[XRogue]

Hmmm, now I understand why Jedi potential children kept being born....

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Spontaneous combat!?!

He asked Leia to point it at the barge and then jumped to safety!

It was definitely a revenge move.

Alright everyone [else], what do you think of BJenkins' assertion? What do Luke's actions imply when he orders specifically the destruction of the Barge? *puts on Professor air*

Originally Posted by XRogue

Hmmm, now I understand why Jedi potential children kept being born....

Now let's not get into Yoda's past....

[XRogue]

Gah, my pointy ears are burning.