Gondor and Dol Amroth

05-22-2001, 12:17 AM

What was the relationship between Gondor and Dol Amroth? Were they separate, but allies, or was Dol Amroth a territory of Gondor?

05-22-2001, 01:27 AM

The Princes of Dol Amroth were vassals of the King of Gondor.

06-02-2001, 01:41 PM

Dol Amroth was a region and city in Gondor. The Prince of Dol Amroth is a vassal of the King(and also the Steward during the Rule of the Stewards).

Snowdog · 05-21-2002, 04:20 PM

Also, there were some elven blood in the line of the princes of Dol Amroth if I remember my history correctly.

Sauron's Nagging Wife · 05-21-2002, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snowdog
Also, there were some elven blood in the line of the princes of Dol Amroth if I remember my history correctly.

One of the reasons why Imrahil was so bloody gorgeous.

Hi Snowdog, you naughty dawg

afro-elf · 05-21-2002, 08:46 PM

yes it was imrazor the numenorian and nimdodel's hand maiden
mithrellas

Snowdog · 05-22-2002, 01:33 PM

Right. You have great questions afro-elf.. makes me want to do research and all. Too bad I'm at work right now. :\

Lady Legrace! Good to see you here!

I'm being a good dog... :evil

***Jonathan*** · 03-20-2003, 06:16 PM

Is there any work by Tolkien where Dol Amroth is described more deeply? There was not much information in LotR and it's appendix.

Melko Belcha · 03-20-2003, 06:38 PM

Unfinished Tales and The Peoples of Middle-earth

Cirdan · 03-22-2003, 10:38 PM

The namesake of Dol Amroth was Amroth the Sindarin Elf, King of Lorien, who was the love of Nimrodel, drowned in the Bay of Belfalas.

Aragorn_iz_cool · 06-07-2003, 08:20 PM

Dol Amroth was occupied by a family of the Faithful that had left numenor before the downfall. I think it said that in unfinished tales

Lollypopgurl · 06-14-2003, 10:00 PM

For some reason, Dol Amroth and Imrahil have always facinated me.

I hope the Prince is in the ROTK movie. He better be gorgeous.

Lalaith · 07-05-2003, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snowdog
Also, there were some elven blood in the line of the princes of Dol Amroth if I remember my history correctly.

I always wondered about that because Tolkien wrote that there were only 3 Elven/Human couples. Or am I wrong?

***Jonathan*** · 07-05-2003, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lalaith
I always wondered about that because Tolkien wrote that there were only 3 Elven/Human couples. Or am I wrong?

Well, the history about Elvish blood in the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth was more myth and legend rather than fact.
It was something that the people of Dol Amroth liked to believe in.

Artanis · 07-05-2003, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan
Well, the history about Elvish blood in the line of the Princes of Dol Amroth was more myth and legend rather than fact.
It was something that the people of Dol Amroth liked to believe in.

Perhaps, but Legolas recognised the Elvish blood in prince Imrahil. I find it hard to believe that he could be wrong about this.

***Jonathan*** · 07-05-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
Perhaps, but Legolas recognised the Elvish blood in prince Imrahil. I find it hard to believe that he could be wrong about this.

Well, Imrahil was Dúnedain so there must've at least be a little Elvish blood in him. But I guess if Legolas was able to recognize it, Imrahil must've been more 'Elvish' than the average Gondorian.

Artanis · 07-05-2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan
Well, Imrahil was Dúnedain so there must've at least be a little Elvish blood in him.

Not all of the Dúnedain had Elvish blood, only the descendants of Elros. Was Imrahil among them?

I looked up the actual passage about the 3 unions in LotR, appendix A. It says:

Quote:

There were three unions of the Eldar and the Edain: Lúthien and Beren; Idril and Tuor; Arwen and Aragorn.

Maybe it all depends on what is meant by the word 'Eldar'.

***Jonathan*** · 07-05-2003, 08:56 AM

"Tolkien makes it clear that this was a tradition in Dol Amroth, and not necessarily a true story. According to the legend, Mithrellas was a companion of Nimrodel, who became lost in the woodlands of Belfalas, and was taken in by Imrazôr. As far as they go, these details match the established history of Nimrodel's journey. Unions of Elf and Man, though, are all but unheard of in Tolkien's universe, and are always of vital historical importance. The Princes' claims of Elven descent, while they are not certainly false, are difficult to accept without scepticism."
--The Encyclopedia of Arda

Yes, maybe Imrahil was related to Elros in some way.

The word 'Eldar' is applied to all elves, so if Tolkien said there were only three unions of the Eldar and Edain I guess he must've meant of all the Elves and all the Men.

Tar-Elenion · 07-05-2003, 11:34 PM

Eldar (as used in LotR et.al.) refers to those Elves who embarked upon the Great Journey (and their descendants) as opposed to the Avari.
The Elven ancstress of Imrahil was Mithrellas, a handmaiden of of Nimrodel, and was, apparently a Silvan Elf of Avarin descent, and not an Elda.

***Jonathan*** · 07-06-2003, 04:44 AM

Yes, it's true that the Elves who didn't embark upon the Great Journey were not Eldar.
But the Silvian Elves were Eldar. They were Teleri who fell away from the Great Journey.
The Avari were Elves who didn't take part in the Great Journey at all, which the Silvian Elves apparently did.

So since Mithrellas was a Silvian Elf, she couldn't have been one of the Avari. She must have been an Elda.

05-22-2001, 12:17 AM	#1
Mandos Guest Posts: n/a	Gondor and Dol Amroth What was the relationship between Gondor and Dol Amroth? Were they separate, but allies, or was Dol Amroth a territory of Gondor?

05-22-2001, 01:27 AM	#2
The Black Lieutenant Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Gondor and Dol Amroth The Princes of Dol Amroth were vassals of the King of Gondor.

06-02-2001, 01:41 PM	#3
Grand Admiral Reese Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Gondor and Dol Amroth Dol Amroth was a region and city in Gondor. The Prince of Dol Amroth is a vassal of the King(and also the Steward during the Rule of the Stewards).

05-21-2002, 04:20 PM	#4
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	Also, there were some elven blood in the line of the princes of Dol Amroth if I remember my history correctly. __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

05-21-2002, 08:46 PM	#6
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	yes it was imrazor the numenorian and nimdodel's hand maiden mithrellas __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

05-22-2002, 01:33 PM	#7
Snowdog Dúnedain Ranger of the North Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: The Ruins of Arnor Posts: 892	Right. You have great questions afro-elf.. makes me want to do research and all. Too bad I'm at work right now. :\ Lady Legrace! Good to see you here! I'm being a good dog... :evil __________________ "I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run."

03-20-2003, 06:16 PM	#8
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Is there any work by Tolkien where Dol Amroth is described more deeply? There was not much information in LotR and it's appendix. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

03-20-2003, 06:38 PM	#9
Melko Belcha Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Behind the Walls of Night Posts: 286	Unfinished Tales and The Peoples of Middle-earth

03-22-2003, 10:38 PM	#10
Cirdan Elf Lord of the Grey Havens Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: somewhere else Posts: 2,381	The namesake of Dol Amroth was Amroth the Sindarin Elf, King of Lorien, who was the love of Nimrodel, drowned in the Bay of Belfalas. __________________ There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary

06-07-2003, 08:20 PM	#11
Aragorn_iz_cool Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 119	Dol Amroth was occupied by a family of the Faithful that had left numenor before the downfall. I think it said that in unfinished tales

06-14-2003, 10:00 PM	#12
Lollypopgurl Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 222	For some reason, Dol Amroth and Imrahil have always facinated me. I hope the Prince is in the ROTK movie. He better be gorgeous. __________________ a violinist...

07-05-2003, 08:56 AM	#18
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	"Tolkien makes it clear that this was a tradition in Dol Amroth, and not necessarily a true story. According to the legend, Mithrellas was a companion of Nimrodel, who became lost in the woodlands of Belfalas, and was taken in by Imrazôr. As far as they go, these details match the established history of Nimrodel's journey. Unions of Elf and Man, though, are all but unheard of in Tolkien's universe, and are always of vital historical importance. The Princes' claims of Elven descent, while they are not certainly false, are difficult to accept without scepticism." --The Encyclopedia of Arda Yes, maybe Imrahil was related to Elros in some way. The word 'Eldar' is applied to all elves, so if Tolkien said there were only three unions of the Eldar and Edain I guess he must've meant of all the Elves and all the Men. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

07-05-2003, 11:34 PM	#19
Tar-Elenion Enting Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 71	Eldar (as used in LotR et.al.) refers to those Elves who embarked upon the Great Journey (and their descendants) as opposed to the Avari. The Elven ancstress of Imrahil was Mithrellas, a handmaiden of of Nimrodel, and was, apparently a Silvan Elf of Avarin descent, and not an Elda. __________________ Tar-Elenion Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.

07-06-2003, 04:44 AM	#20
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Yes, it's true that the Elves who didn't embark upon the Great Journey were not Eldar. But the Silvian Elves were Eldar. They were Teleri who fell away from the Great Journey. The Avari were Elves who didn't take part in the Great Journey at all, which the Silvian Elves apparently did. So since Mithrellas was a Silvian Elf, she couldn't have been one of the Avari. She must have been an Elda. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻