Bombadil...theories? The Ring had no effect on him!

[ArwenEvenstar]

i remember a post when this forum was in the 'first age'(i may appear a newbie but i used to know this forum pretty well) i recall somebody saying JRRT didn't say much about him because he wanted an air of mystery, maybe tolkien could tell the future in a way and saw ppl talking about stuff like this

[Gandalf]

Tom (Iarwain Ban-adar, Orald, Forn) is indeed a Maia.
"As he was the first he will be last" I believe were Gandalf's words in the Council. He was the first of the Maia.
That's LOTR's version ...

my version however is a bit different.
I believe that Tom IS Middle Earth. As the Vala and the Maia are Eru's thoughts, Tom is middle earth. He does not control it, Eru does not control the Maia nor Vala, but it cannot control him either. He is his own master, as Gandalf said. He will only perish when Middle Earth perishes.

- Bram

[Agburanar]

good thought. Did he know, then, how the war of the ring was going to end? Otherwise he may have been a little bothered that Middle Earth might indeed end.

[Kevin McIntyre]

Remember even to the characters in the story Bombadil is a bit of a mystery. He was a mystery to the author as well. But since this all about our own speculation I believe he was the essence of life - the breath of Eru. When dealing with the Tolkien Universe I view the stories of the Silmarrillion as mythical stories of creation and ancient warriors where as the Lord of the Rings as an historical recording of events. Any ancient narrative regarding the nature of the universe pails in comparison to the wonders revealed via true events - just as the ancient myths that have defined the various cultures around today pail when looking at the wonders of the universe that we have barely begun to understand.

[ringbearer]

I don't think he would care!

[Oliver Thornton]

I must say he truthfully was an amzing character.
I suspect he had conquered an evil greater than the rings and Sarumon before he met the hobbits.

[Agburanar]

Back here again are we? Actually I was going to reopen it anyway because I found a quote from Gandalf in 'The White Rider'. Gandalf says that Treebeard is the oldest living thing in middle earth. If this is true then Bombadil must be younger, so he can't be Illuvatar or any of the Maia or Valar.

[Lightice]

No, Treebeard is oldest LIVING thing. Bombadil's a spirit on my opinion. Although I think that's a glitch from Tolkien. He did also first say, that Sauron doesn't allow writing his true name or saying it, but his servant is still called Mouth of Sauron.
I believe, that Bombadil's actually spirit of world itself. Varda. That has little of every creature in him. That's why no living ever harms him and such small thing as the Ring has no effect on him. Also, at Council of Elrond it was said, that Bombadil can't resist Sauron, if Earth itself isn't that strong, and Sauron can torture even mountains themselves.
To that I place this belief.

[Hirwinion]

The best guess is that Tom Bombadil is a maiar. I have read papers that state he be Aule or even that he could Eru. Tolkien left his nature in an ambiguous state because he wanted to. Some things were better left for the reader to puzzle over. Recall there are lots of spirits that were summoned to ME not only Vala, Maia but the ents were summoned by Yavanna. Carahardras the Mtn on FotR is ascribed an almost sentinent quality in the attack on the fellowship. Bombadil could be a primeaval spirit not of ASman but of ME placed there by Eru without the knowledge, directly,anyway, of the Powers. The bottlom line is Tom can be whatewver you want him to be. If Maia, spirit, Vala etc..
In actuality he was a doll the Tolkiens purchased in Holland.

Old Tom Bombadil is a merry old fellow: bight blue his jacket is and his boots are yellow.

[Gandalf]

Hehe, oldest living thing ...

Anyhoo, at a certain point it even occured to me that Bombadil was Middle Earth itself. It doesn't really make sense, but I think it's an interesting thing to consider. Why do the trees and all other living things like him that much? Why didn't he get wet from running through the rain? I don't think it's that easy to control not only the train, but also to have some control over the entire woods (he doesn't control it technically speaking, but he *is* it) ...

But Tom isn't the most interesting character ... I find Goldberry to be more interesting ... very very little is known about her! I mean who is *she*?

[Ñólendil]

There's another ancient thread about Tom lying around in which MM and I get into it about him. It was pretty much proved there that Tom can't be a Maia. He first existed long after Arda was created.

Tom as the earth itself: I find some problems with this theory (other than the info. posted in the other thread referred to above). Not all the trees -- nor do all other living things -- like Tom. Think of Old Man Willow, or Saruman. Saruman couldn't have liked Tom, not if he met him. Not the fallen Saruman. As for the rain, I don't think that shows any earthy trait. The earth gets wet.

As you say, he _doesn't_ control the woods, he doesn't even own them and I can't agree that he can control the rain. He even told the hobbits 'I'm no weather-master'. He can ward off the rain, obviously, but that also is not something the earth or the woods themselves can do.

[Agburanar]

It seems that Tom is a kind of anti earth.

[Bombadil's PR Guy]

Who Is Tom Bombadil?
Someone pasted this lengthy, but engaging essay by Gene Hargrove into a thread here previously. Hargrove examines many of the same theories that we've been discussing here, casting his lot most persuasively with the "Tom is Maiar" crowd.
As expressed above, Bombadil's unexplained nature, leaving us guessing really spices up the book. As with life, if we could understand and know everything in LOTR, it would never continue to be so damn interesting. As radical as the Bombadil as Witch King sounds, the simple fact that someone can launch interesting arguments along these lines attests to the success of this "anomilous" character.

[brownjenkins]

I think the most interesting aspect of TB is not who he was, but why he was not effected by the ring... Most people seem to think it is because he was in some way all-powerful, or at least very powerful... I don't really buy this. I think the real reason the ring had no power over him, is because he had no need for it. Everyone from Frodo to Gandalf had something more they wanted to achieve... aspirations for the ring to work it's evil upon. TB was 100% satisfied with his life as is, so to him, the ring was no more than a band of gold.

[Quickbeam]

thois is replying to the theory that tb could be the witch king. Well maybe the reason he helped frodo, and then tried to hurt him, is where he was. Remember how he wouldn't go any farther than his "boindaries". Maybe once he stepped out, he would be the witch king, and once in the boundaries, he is tom. If this is not true, Then why will he only stay within that area??????

[Agburanar]

He talks to Farmer Maggot though sometimes. Does he leave the forest or does Maggot go to him?

[ArwenEvenstar]

it's been awile since i read it but to me it was basically Tom runing around the country side visting 'old man willow' and Farmer Maggot and other people/hobbits/trees and i remember him boating down the winthywindle (spelling)

[FrodoFriend]

Originally posted by brownjenkins
I think the most interesting aspect of TB is not who he was, but why he was not effected by the ring... Most people seem to think it is because he was in some way all-powerful, or at least very powerful... I don't really buy this. I think the real reason the ring had no power over him, is because he had no need for it. Everyone from Frodo to Gandalf had something more they wanted to achieve... aspirations for the ring to work it's evil upon. TB was 100% satisfied with his life as is, so to him, the ring was no more than a band of gold.

I agree absolutely. the Ring only has power over those who desire power in some shape or form. this why hobbits are much less affected by it than the other peoples of middle-earth. where elves want knowledge & beauty, men want glory, dwarves want craftsmanship or whatever, hobbits only want their six meals a day and a quiet life. tom bombadil, meanwhile, is so much a part of nature that he has no need of modern magical or mechanical things. what could the Ring possibly give him? he has no ambition; basically, he wants nothing.

here's an interesting question: how would the Ring affect an Ent?

[KGamgee]

Thats a really good question. Umm....I guess they want Orcs out of Middle Earth, they really didn't like them...what else....OOOO!!!! They do want something! THE ENTWIVES! So, it wouldn't effect them much, but Ents do want some things, so I guess in a small way it would affect them.

[Comic Book Guy]

Thats a really good question. Umm....I guess they want Orcs out of Middle Earth, they really didn't like them...what else....OOOO!!!! They do want something! THE ENTWIVES! So, it wouldn't effect them much, but Ents do want some things, so I guess in a small way it would affect them.

You are forgetting that nobody can actually use the ring to get what they want, it uses them. The ents would be corrupted to do what the ring wants just like anything else.