Who Really Killed the Witch King in ROTK??

[Gordis]

Firstly I want to state that I have not a slightest doubt that the nazgul had physical bodies, albeit invisible.

Secondly, if we go speculating, I also have a theory. I believe the WK had been pierced by a blade before, but not necessarily by a Barrow-blade. I think the major difference between ordinary blades and BD blades is that the former disintegrate at once, at the first contact with nazgul blood - so they simply can't do much damage. The enspelled blades do disintegrate, but later, after the damage is done.

Speculation on my part about how the knives – both Barrow-blade and Morgul-knife – might operate. They may have no similar function (besides, this is all fantasy magic!), but they do seem to be mirrors of one another, do they not? The Morgul-knife drew Frodo into the shadow-world. The Barrow-blade made the Witch-king vulnerable to Éowyn’s blow.

But Frodo had been vulnerable to the nazgul blow before - as was any living thing. So the situation is different, IMO

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

WiKi had to have been stabbed by a blade before. Otherwise, how could anyone know to state that "all blades perish" that pierce him?

[Gordis]

Exactly. But it wasn't necessarily a Barrow-blade...

[Butterbeer]

.... flogging dead horses are we?

Well.. it's below burning dead badgers, and flombaying ferrets in my normal hobbies list...

but heh-ho .... those of us that are feverish and in bed cannot be picky


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some thoughts:

Concur on the especial relevance of the barrow-blades and Alcuin has noted the relevant passage already that no oher blade would be so deadly...

and therefore Gor (hello bw ) as Sam had also one of these very same blades ... had he smitten a wraith as the movie mogul wanted..it is therefore consistent of ol' JRR to comment he would have stumbled or fallen -

i must say also that though sometimes we men DO think Women come from another planet sometimes... i think it fair that they are by dent of being 'man' inthe sense that, say... a hobbit can be deemed part man -

ie Human - i always thought it a bit odd that part - but there you see the prophecy was not designating the species at all

it was far more literal ... in theory an effeminate or homosexual male that considered himself 'no man' may have done the trick...

which, given the inevitable remakes down the years to come... gives pause for thought





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Did the Nazgul eat, regardless of need?

WEll.. it is almost Canon now that they were fond of strawberries - but as JRR never (sadly) got the chance to verify this...that must, ultimately be left open for consideration....


For myself, i am not sure the nazgul were impervious to normal blows per se..more that the barrow blades were specialised with runes and had special import to the Witch king -

cleaarly, he seems to have thought long and well on the prophecy... this in itself lends itself to the idea that he could suffer pyhsical damage -

the question more specifically to my mind is: how much did the barrow blades and their runes and even perhaps their age... make him vulnerable to actually sever his fëa from whatever wraith form his hröa actually exhibited or co-existed at / in?


as to the initial question, well one must say Eowyn did it..but surely Merry's part was instrumental in it -

but it is fatuous in the extreme to start down that path... for to do so would lead to a cast of thousands...for eg we could say merry ol Tom was jointly, albiet tennuously part of the team


..can you imagine if they started handing out medals or Gongs?.. it would go on longer than the Oscars



Best BB

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I don't think it could have been a Barrow-blade. I think without fairly quick aid from Sauron, a Barrow-blade would have killed him.

[Gordis]

Well, Wiki himself was not bad in sorcery... Maybe a puncture by a Morgul knife could help?

[Gordis]

Hi, BB, nice to meet you!

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

but it is fatuous in the extreme to start down that path... for to do so would lead to a cast of thousands...for eg we could say merry ol Tom was jointly, albiet tennuously part of the team


..can you imagine if they started handing out medals or Gongs?.. it would go on longer than the Oscars

Right. I have even read a fic that tries to convince the readers that another runner for that Oscar was ...Legolas.
How so? He killed a Fell Beast with an arrow - and it was the best FB of the nine, so at the Pelennor , the poor Wiki got a much inferior, very stupid beast who didn't know how to bite without exposing its neck to angry Rohan girls.

So, it was Legolas who killed Wiki!

[Butterbeer]

..you've convinced me !

well, case closed then, heh? It was Legolas!

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Yeah, but if Thranduil hadn't gotten jiggy with Leggy's mom then that wouldn't have been possible. I credit SEX with the entire affair!

[Gordis]

Also if Glorfy hadn't made his funny prophesy, then the WK wouldn't sit transfixed peering at the girl, but instead he would have hit her with the mace right away, before Merry had time to crawl behind - or he would have killed both.
'Tis all Elven conspiracy!

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Butterbeer

WEll.. it is almost Canon now that they were fond of strawberries - but as JRR never (sadly) got the chance to verify this...that must, ultimately be left open for consideration....

Strawbabies? Nazgûl gots strawbabies?

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I was thinking the spell that was broken, "the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will," was the Ring-spell. Surely, destroying his Ring would break that spell, but why believe that is the only way to break it?

He isn't wearing the Ring. Therefore, its grasp on him is to some extent tenuous.

I agree with this, but I disagree with the statement made elsewhere that the W-K was not paralysed. 'knit his unseen sinews to his will" to me sounds like the spell that allowed his consciousness to control his undead body.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Attalus

I agree with this, but I disagree with the statement made elsewhere that the W-K was not paralysed. 'knit his unseen sinews to his will" to me sounds like the spell that allowed his consciousness to control his undead body.

And "his will" was controlled to a great extent by Sauron via his ring, therefore my deduction that this spell that was broken by Merry's stab was indeed the ring-spell. If Merry's stab left WiKi's "unseen sinews" mere invisible flesh without will (paralyzed, if you will), then he was a sitting duck for Eowyn's death-blow.

[Rían]

we need the popcorn-eating smilie on this board!

[Noble Elf Lord]

To cut the long story short, let's just say that I agree with Alcuin's first post. Great ideas. Which is not to say that others wouldn't have had good ones too.

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

we need the popcorn-eating smilie on this board!

How's this?

[Attalus]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

then he was a sitting duck for Eowyn's death-blow.

As I understand, this is indeed the case. That is why he didn't raise his mace for another blow.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I believe we're all in agreement mostly.

[Attalus]

Huh, where are the Merry-killed-the-Witch-King-and-Eowyn-was-just-a-spectator loons when you want them?

[frodomerryandaragornrock]

here's another supporter of my case that i found on another lotr website (not like there'e any of those, right??) :http://www.barrowdowns.com/articles_...rdofnazgul.php

THANX every1!!!