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Old 04-15-2009, 02:27 PM   #1
Gordis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
Are you saying you think he never returned to Valinor? Or just that he stayed in M.E. longer than Gandalf after Sauron's fall?

The ship Gandalf, Galadriel, and Frodo took wasn't the last, btw. Legolas, Celeborn, and some would say Gimli and Sam all sailed west, too, at some point.
Quite true, but it is not said that he was on that ship either. I don't believe he never returned to Valinor, he must have at some point, IMO. He was a Maia and had the right to go there, I think, in body or in spirit (if killed), unless banned, like Saruman and Sauron.
I don't think Radagast deserved to be banned.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:35 AM   #2
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There's this in UT:

Wilt thou learn the lore that was long secret
of the Five that came from a far country?
Only one returned. Others never again
under Men's dominion Middle-earth shall seek
until Dagor Dagorath and the Doom cometh.
...
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:08 AM   #3
The Dread Pirate Roberts
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I think the "master of shapes and hue" probably was at Rhosgobel (or nearby) when they sought him there, but hiding in another guise.

I also think he had a hand in sending the Eagles to the Black Gate for the fall of Sauron.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:26 AM   #4
Gordis
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Found something in HOME 7.

Quote:
Home 7: "the story foreseen from Moria"
Gandalf takes [Saruman's] staff and breaks it over his knee. 'Go, Saruman,' he said, 'and beg from the charitable for a day's digging.'
Isengard is given to the Dwarves. Or to Radagast?
They ride home to Rivendell.
Here is some proof that at least at the time of writing of this outline, Tolkien expected Radagast to survive the War of the Ring and remain in ME.
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:37 PM   #5
Attalus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordis View Post
Found something in HOME 7.


Here is some proof that at least at the time of writing of this outline, Tolkien expected Radagast to survive the War of the Ring and remain in ME.
Good find, Gordis. To me, the least worrisome thing is to find "Rhadagast's old home at Rhosgobel deserted." This seems to imply that there was a newer one, but, then, why should the Elven scouts feel called upon to report that the 'old home' was deserted? And, Saruman did not plan Gandalf's execution, but to leave it to Sauron to 'devise a fitting punishment ...for Gandalf the Grey.' Perhaps it was beyond Saruman's powers to kill another of his fellow Istari? But not Sauron's. Gandalf certainly implies the latter.
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Attalus View Post
Good find, Gordis. To me, the least worrisome thing is to find "Rhadagast's old home at Rhosgobel deserted." This seems to imply that there was a newer one, but, then, why should the Elven scouts feel called upon to report that the 'old home' was deserted? And, Saruman did not plan Gandalf's execution, but to leave it to Sauron to 'devise a fitting punishment ...for Gandalf the Grey.' Perhaps it was beyond Saruman's powers to kill another of his fellow Istari? But not Sauron's. Gandalf certainly implies the latter.
I suspect not beyond his powers - since they were in the forms of men, and Saruman himself was slain by a man (of sorts). But possibly beyond his inclinations and preferences.

As for the 'old home' part - I suspect that the home itself was just old. Radagast had lived there a long time.

Interesting what Gordis found... though JRRT could have changed his mind about this, as well as so many other things.

I don't think Radagast sent the Eagles to the Black Gate. They had previously come to the Lonely Mountain on their own volition, and they had been clearly keeping an eye on things in February/March of 3019. This watchfulness was more at Gandalf's prompting than Radagast's, I should think.
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:35 PM   #7
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I suspect not beyond his powers - since they were in the forms of men, and Saruman himself was slain by a man (of sorts). But possibly beyond his inclinations and preferences.
Good point. A Balrog, or even a Man, could slay the body, but only the Lords of the West could cast the spirit into the Void.

How much, I wonder, of Saruman's vulnerability to Wormtongue's blade was due to the fact that Gandalf broke Saruman's staff and cast him from the Order?
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