Who owns the name Entmoot?

I came across an interesting site today for Tolkien Enterprises. It is incredible to think that this company owns the rights to so many people, places and things in Middle-earth. Hmm....and I always thought that I owned the name anduin.

I think it's okay as long as we remain
1) non-profit
2) Tolkien-related, crediting the fact that the name came from LOTR.

Oh, I'm not worried that they would try anything to prevent us from using the name, I just thought the info was interesting. Can you imagine owning the name Gandalf? Even if you didn't use it to make a ton of money, just owning it would be cool.

BTW, it doesn't make much difference if we give credit to where the name comes from. They still own the name....so if we were making money, that wouldn't be a good arguement.

Just think, anything and everything that uses any of the names listed at their website....including the movie....has to pay for the privilage!

You just gave me the most uncomfortable feeling there. Hmmm... Somebody owns my username. Doesn't sound so good.

anduin, didn't you know about the lawsuit against "Gandalf the Clown" that recently ended after seven years?

Yes, but what is curious is that that lawsuit was between GTC and The Tolkien Estate...not Tolkien Enterprises....or at least that is how E! reported it.

Anyone could trademark the names. Tolkien Enterprises just happened to beat a lot of people to the punch.

Luckily they don't seem to be going after the fans like Paramount did to the Star Trek sites. And besides, if they did go after anyone, which I doubt, they'd take out the big sites first

Hehe, Tolkien- Ent.com

Yeah......but how and why did they beat the Tolkien Estate to the copyrights?

for the Trek sites, that was the company that owns Paramount, not Paramount itself. and so many fans & webmasters protested that i hear they've stopped harassing the site-owners.

aryne *

Tolkien Enterprises does not own the copyrights. They own the trademarks. A trademark is a word or symbol which defines a product, service, or company within a certain industry. Trademarks can be registered (for protection) for periods of ten years, and they may be renewed indefinitely unless or until it can be shown the trademarks are not being enforced.

"Enforcement" is a legal can of worms I'm not qualified to comment on. I would guess that if people were making money off of Tolkien-related trademarks owned by Tolkien Enterprises, and Tolkien Enterprises were not pursuing licensing fees from those people, they would be failing to enforce their trademarks.

As for how Tolkien Enteprises got the trademarks and not the Tolkien Estate, I only know bits and pieces of the story, but essentially the Tolkien Estate is not concerned with merchandising. The Tolkien Estate administers the literary properties of J.R.R. Tolkien (i.e., they control the publication of his books and unpublished works, and most of the secondary rights associated with those books and unpublished works).

In 1966 or 1967 (I forget), Tolkien sold the film (and associated merchandising) rights to THE HOBBIT and THE LORD OF THE RINGS to United Artists. United Artists eventually sold the rights themselves. Saul Zaentz acquired them in 1977 (I don't know if he got them from United Artists or if there was an intermediary owner).

Zaentz set up a division of the Saul Zaentz Company, Inc., to administer these film and merchandising rights. That division is Tolkien Enterprises. There is no legal relationship between Tolkien Enterprises and the Tolkien Estate. Christopher Tolkien administers (or used to) the Tolkien Estate in conjunction with a London-based law firm. Since he is retired, he may no longer be directly involved.

Tolkien Enterprises, in order to protect its merchandising rights, created the trademarks they list on their Web site.

Trademark law does allow what is called "fair use". Like copyright law, trademark law stipulates that if a work is not primariliy composed of a trademarked item, the item MAY be fairly used without permission provided it's not the direct generator of revenue (or something to that effect). Basically, if you create a work of art using someone else's trademark, and you sell that work of art, you are probably infringing on the trademark. But if you create, say, a Web site which merely identifies the ownership of a trademark with another trademark, you MAY be able to get away with it.

Viacom (which owns Paramount) was able to intimidate Webmasters into removing trademarks because those people could not prevent their ISPs (who did not want to be sued) from taking down their sites if they themselves did not comply with Viacom's demands. And these Webmasters didn't have the money to wage any legal battles and prove fair use.

Of course, there have been quite a few clear violations of trademark and intellectual property rights among online fandom's Web sites. Not all fan sites that get pressured into removing content are being wrongly pressured or bullied. Just because big corporations flex their muscle doesn't necesarily mean they are the bad guys.

Tolkien Enterprises right now appears to be engaged in two or more legal actions. Sierra On-Line, as best I have been able to determine, has sued them (or, rather, The Saul Zaentz Company). Another Tolkien Enterprises licensor has mentioned attorneys but haven't actually come out and said either that they are suing anyone or that they are being sued. I have heard through private sources that New Line Cinema is "pressuring" people with some Tolkien licenses to give them up, but I don't know what that means.

The licenses represent big money right now, and they may always represent big money from now on. So don't be surprised if trademark actions start up against fan sites in coming years. But for now I wouldn't worry about it.

What Michael Martinez said.

Nice post MM...thanks!

BTW, who are you....really?

Don't the dark mask and silver bullets make it clear who I am?

[Kitster]He's the reincarnation of Tolkien of course![/Kitster]

that's the second interestign theory i've heard on MM's origins!

aryne *

"who are you, Master?" (s)he asked.
"Eh, what?" said MM sitting up, and his eyes glinting in the gloom. "Don't you know my name yet?"

I doubt anyone could get rights on the name Gandalf anyway...it's from Norse mythology, along with many other Tolkien names.

I do remember, a long time ago, in the 80's (!), seeing modems called Gandalf (or were they switch box for networks?).

Yeah, I remember those too! I took a programming class in 1983 (in Pascal, LOLOL!!!!!) and I remember the Gandalf boxes.