A question about Dwarves and Pictures of handsome dwarves.

afro-elf · 04-24-2003, 12:54 AM

I was quite surprised to come across a link that had picture of Dwarves that were not ugly old men.

Is there a quote about Dwarves in Tolkien about Dwarves being ugly old men?

Here is the link

http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/s...ar/sabrar.html

Wayfarer · 04-24-2003, 01:03 AM

Um...

Have I mentioned I reeellly don't like elfwood ever on this forums?

In any case, no, Tolkien did not say dwarves were ugly. I think it's mainly because they had beards, and they were tough and rough.

If I had to give my own opinion, I would say they were beautiful in a different way than elves or humans- more rocky, chisled, more square, like... almost like a machine is beautiful sometimes.
But that's just me.

afro-elf · 04-24-2003, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Have I mentioned I reeellly don't like elfwood ever on this forums?

I don't recall you saying that. Thanks for the input.

Bombadillo · 04-24-2003, 01:14 AM

Well they were odd and fairly disturbing. The one with the she-dwarf and her child.

As far as I know Tolkien never does mention how ugly or beautiful the dwarves are. Beauty is just not one of their outstanding features I suppose. But I really did think they were much hairier and... square. Does he say anything about females and facial hair? I imagined everyone at least had sideburns.

afro-elf · 04-24-2003, 01:18 AM

I think in HoME/ PoME he say they have beards too.
I guess Dwarves might find beardless women strange .

Wayfarer · 04-24-2003, 01:20 AM

Actually... That said, thanks for the link. Those pictures aren't all bad.

I think part of what I dislike about typical fantasy art is that 'beauty' is interpreted as 'feminine'. Elves, for example, are almost invariably treated as slender and girly, and some of those dwarf pics have the same fault- the first two, for example, are very feminine, especially around the eyes. The next two I like much better.

Sminty_Smeagol · 04-24-2003, 07:53 AM

But the dwarf host of Turin and his group of bandits... and who accompanied them in his halls... it gave a description of him as an apparently ugly old man.... ish....

afro-elf · 04-24-2003, 07:58 AM

those were petty dwarves. but I was thinking of the rest. thanks for bringing it up to clarify.

Linaewen · 04-24-2003, 08:13 AM

Hmmm. I think those pictures are too weird. I can't really stand them (no offense). Those other manga/anime type pictures of the Elves were all right, but these are just too...strange..

Lizra · 04-24-2003, 08:27 AM

Those "dwarves" look like her!

Nope, I like the stocky, bearded creatures, solid, and low to the ground. I'll pass on the comic book look also!

I would like to see a virile, young dwarf....but nothing "cute"!

Linaewen · 04-24-2003, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
Those "dwarves" look like her! Nope, I like the stocky, bearded creatures, solid, and low to the ground. I'll pass on the comic book look also! I would like to see a virile, young dwarf....but nothing "cute"!

Who's her?

I agree with most of the rest though, except Dwarves can be cute. Hello? Blue, yellow etc beards tucked into their belts? Sounds cute to me...

Lizra · 04-24-2003, 08:59 AM

The artist! I mean "cute" as in school age crush material!

Linaewen · 04-24-2003, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lizra
The artist! I mean "cute" as in school age crush material!

Oh. Except her hair is blue....

You should be clear about which type of 'cute' you mean. How am I supposed to know? (they ain't that 'cute' anyway!)

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-24-2003, 11:08 AM

The link's not working for me...

afro-elf · 04-24-2003, 07:32 PM

If really want to see go to elfwood and type in the name Sabra Hart. I do have to agree, now, that they do look a ef·fem·i·nate in the face.

Sminty_Smeagol · 04-24-2003, 08:26 PM

that artist's portrayal of dwarves don't look.. old enough. Dwarves lived for hundreds of years, you'd think they'd be more weathered and have more years tucked away in their facial expressions and eyes. People who had experienced the joy and pain of hundreds of years wouldn't look like human adolescents...

Also, they don't look short. Aren't dwarves supposed to be half the height of a human? If you give them human proportions, they'll look regular sized. I mean, If you are going to draw dwarves, you have to give them shrunked proportions... their legs and arms are shorter, they're thicker... not everything is to scale as it is on the human body (and as it basically seems to be in the pic... it seems like all they did was buff em up a bit. What about the thick bones and wide ness?)

Ruinel · 04-24-2003, 09:15 PM

Ack! The link doesn't work. Tried google search. Found it. That link isn't working. sigh. Nevermind.

Gwaimir Windgem · 04-24-2003, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by afro-elf
If really want to see go to elfwood and type in the name Sabra Hart. I do have to agree, now, that they do look a ef·fem·i·nate in the face.

Elfwood was down. It's working for me now.

afro-elf · 04-25-2003, 12:18 AM

Quote:

don't look old enough. Dwarves lived for hundreds of years, you'd think they'd be more weathered and have more years tucked away in their facial expressions and eyes. People who had experienced the joy and pain of hundreds of years wouldn't look like human adolescents...

Quote:

Dwarves remain young – e.g. regarded as too tender for really hard work or for fighting – until they were 30 or nearly that (Dáin II was very young in 2799 (32) and his slaying Azog was a great feat). After that they hardened and took on the appearance of age (by human standards) very quickly. By forty all Dwarves looked much alike in age, until they reached what they regarded as old age, about 240. They then began to wrinkle and go white quickly (baldness being unknown among them) unless they were going to be long lived, in which case the process was delayed. Almost the only physical disorder they suffered from (they were singularly immune from diseases such as affected Men and Halflings) was corpulence. If in prosperous circumstances, many grew very fat at or before 200, and could not do much (save eat) afterwards. Otherwise ‘old age’ lasted not much more than ten years, and from say 40 or a little before to near 240 (two hundred years) the capacity for toil (and for fighting) of most Dwarves was equally great”

No baldness ever, and no wrinkles until 240 years old. Two hundreds in your prime.

I wonder, do Dwarves value bearded women the way men value long hair?

afro-elf · 04-25-2003, 12:24 AM

Quote:

If you give them human proportions, they'll look regular sized. I mean, If you are going to draw dwarves, you have to give them shrunked proportions... their legs and arms are shorter, they're thicker... not everything is to scale as it is on the human body (and as it basically seems to be in the pic... it seems like all they did was buff em up a bit. What about the thick bones and wide ness?)

Why couldn't they be proportionally short with just thickness?

04-24-2003, 12:54 AM	#1
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	A question about Dwarves and Pictures of handsome dwarves. I was quite surprised to come across a link that had picture of Dwarves that were not ugly old men. Is there a quote about Dwarves in Tolkien about Dwarves being ugly old men? Here is the link http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/s...ar/sabrar.html __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

04-24-2003, 01:03 AM	#2
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Um... Have I mentioned I reeellly don't like elfwood ever on this forums? In any case, no, Tolkien did not say dwarves were ugly. I think it's mainly because they had beards, and they were tough and rough. If I had to give my own opinion, I would say they were beautiful in a different way than elves or humans- more rocky, chisled, more square, like... almost like a machine is beautiful sometimes. But that's just me. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

04-24-2003, 01:14 AM	#4
Bombadillo "The Bomb" Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: all over the place Posts: 1,601	Well they were odd and fairly disturbing. The one with the she-dwarf and her child. As far as I know Tolkien never does mention how ugly or beautiful the dwarves are. Beauty is just not one of their outstanding features I suppose. But I really did think they were much hairier and... square. Does he say anything about females and facial hair? I imagined everyone at least had sideburns. __________________ Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity?

04-24-2003, 01:18 AM	#5
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	I think in HoME/ PoME he say they have beards too. I guess Dwarves might find beardless women strange . __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 04-24-2003 at 01:28 AM.

04-24-2003, 01:20 AM	#6
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Actually... That said, thanks for the link. Those pictures aren't all bad. I think part of what I dislike about typical fantasy art is that 'beauty' is interpreted as 'feminine'. Elves, for example, are almost invariably treated as slender and girly, and some of those dwarf pics have the same fault- the first two, for example, are very feminine, especially around the eyes. The next two I like much better. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

04-24-2003, 07:53 AM	#7
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	But the dwarf host of Turin and his group of bandits... and who accompanied them in his halls... it gave a description of him as an apparently ugly old man.... ish.... __________________ I love the fishes.

04-24-2003, 07:58 AM	#8
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	those were petty dwarves. but I was thinking of the rest. thanks for bringing it up to clarify. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

04-24-2003, 08:13 AM	#9
Linaewen Fair Dinkum Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 2,319	Hmmm. I think those pictures are too weird. I can't really stand them (no offense). Those other manga/anime type pictures of the Elves were all right, but these are just too...strange..

04-24-2003, 08:27 AM	#10
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	Those "dwarves" look like her! Nope, I like the stocky, bearded creatures, solid, and low to the ground. I'll pass on the comic book look also! I would like to see a virile, young dwarf....but nothing "cute"! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

04-24-2003, 08:59 AM	#12
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	The artist! I mean "cute" as in school age crush material! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats! Last edited by Lizra : 04-24-2003 at 09:01 AM.

04-24-2003, 11:08 AM	#14
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	The link's not working for me... __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

04-24-2003, 07:32 PM	#15
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	If really want to see go to elfwood and type in the name Sabra Hart. I do have to agree, now, that they do look a ef·fem·i·nate in the face. __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

04-24-2003, 08:26 PM	#16
Sminty_Smeagol Manic Cardboard-Box Dweller Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In a house Posts: 1,071	that artist's portrayal of dwarves don't look.. old enough. Dwarves lived for hundreds of years, you'd think they'd be more weathered and have more years tucked away in their facial expressions and eyes. People who had experienced the joy and pain of hundreds of years wouldn't look like human adolescents... Also, they don't look short. Aren't dwarves supposed to be half the height of a human? If you give them human proportions, they'll look regular sized. I mean, If you are going to draw dwarves, you have to give them shrunked proportions... their legs and arms are shorter, they're thicker... not everything is to scale as it is on the human body (and as it basically seems to be in the pic... it seems like all they did was buff em up a bit. What about the thick bones and wide ness?) __________________ I love the fishes.

04-24-2003, 09:15 PM	#17
Ruinel Banned Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: I have no idea. Posts: 5,441	Ack! The link doesn't work. Tried google search. Found it. That link isn't working. sigh. Nevermind.