How will the Shire be depicted in ROTK?

Black Breathalizer · 10-07-2003, 08:46 AM

Okay, we all know the Scouring of the Shire is not going to be in ROTK. So this is not another thread to lament its absence.

So what will Peter Jackson do? How will the hobbits find the Shire when they return at the end of ROTK? Will it be the same as we last saw it in FOTR? Will it be as if nothing had happened? Or do you think that even without Sharkey, the Shire will have changed for the worse during the hobbits' adventure?

Personally, I think that Tolkien's "you can't go home again" theme still needs to be played out somehow. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a few smoke stacks in the Shire in ROTK.

What do you think?

***Valandil*** · 10-07-2003, 12:04 PM

Tolkien wraps up a LOT of loose threads those last 100 or so pages - plus in the appendices, which I think would be very hard to make work in a drawn-out conclusion to a movie.

What would be NICE is if we got a 3-5 minute narrated overview of how things went down with all the main characters from the end of the main action part of the story onward.

Don't know if that's what they'll DO, but it would be nice...

Other thoughts?

Black Breathalizer · 10-07-2003, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
What would be NICE is if we got a 3-5 minute narrated overview of how things went down with all the main characters from the end of the main action part of the story onward.

I have no clue how PJ plans to cover the action after the destruction of the ring but I do recall reading somewhere that Cate will have the last spoken lines of the film as the Narrator so that would tend to support Valandil's preferred approach, at least to some extent, and give a nice Galadriel bookend to the trilogy.

I'm still of the opinon that PJ has to do something different with the Shire. While I completely understand the reasons behind why the Scouring will not be included, I would argue that a key theme of the book is that everything in our world changes, including, in this case, the Shire. If PJ shows the same Shire that Frodo and Sam left behind, it will detract from one of Tolkien's most powerful themes.

***azalea*** · 10-07-2003, 02:24 PM

I agree, I think something will be done, but it will either not be mentioned (just observed by the viewer), or will be mentioned in passing as dialogue between two characters about how things have changed (probably S and F). These things might be as you said a smokestack or two, more houses and bigger buildings, or even a different attitude among the citizenry. Then on the other hand, I think there could possibly be some golden trees springing up as an unspoken reference to Galadriel's gift of dirt to Sam (I know she didn't give him that in the movie, but it could just be shown with the implication that the Shire had a bit more of a "magical" touch with the return of "our" hobbits. I don't know, just surmising.

Bridgette · 10-07-2003, 05:50 PM

It would be nice to have someone do a narration of what happens to the characters, just to kind of wrap it up. Passing dialoge would work well, to just mention the changes.

Elvengirl · 10-07-2003, 06:22 PM

In the movie Frodo sees the destruction of the Shire while looking in the mirror, so how can the hobbits return to a perfect home. Hopefully, in the extended PJ will put in a scouring of the Shire.

I was thinking the movie would not actually show the hobbits returning home. After the destroying of the ring and crowning of the king, they would from there go to the grey havens and so end the movie. But that's just my own thought.

Quote:

Originally posted by Valandil
What would be NICE is if we got a 3-5 minute narrated overview of how things went down with all the main characters from the end of the main action part of the story onward.

I think it would be nice to show the result of Sam's feelings for Rosie, which might be put in since Rosie was mentioned in FOTR.

Celebréiel · 10-07-2003, 07:06 PM

I agree that a narrative seems like a good way to wrap things up. Mixing the images of Sam...and then Frodo at the gray havens, pausing the narration for some talking. They opened the film with a narrative so it makes sense that they closed it with one.
As far as the shire, I honestly have no clue how that will be played out. It would be super cool to see a use for Sam's magic dirt, but I could also see that being left out...*shrugs* im just clueless...

***IronParrot*** · 10-07-2003, 07:24 PM

I'm not going to talk about how the Shire is going to look or be presented in any straight sense, but rather attack this question from a different angle:

Regardless of whether the Shire is destroyed, I think it's vital that the hobbits are - and this is the keyword - indifferent.

One of the central elements of the "circular" journey that Frodo and Sam go through is that they leave the comfort of the Shire and go out into this vast fantasy world that is too big for them, only to return to a Shire that is still pretty oblivious to the whole thing. The outside world fades away.

Even in the book, where the Scouring of the Shire means the events of Middle-Earth affect the Shire-folk in a very big way, Frodo and Sam are hardly a factor. It's Merry and Pippin who lead the hobbits at Bywater.

In that sense, I think it's pretty important that even after Frodo and Sam go through all that trouble to save the world, their fellow hobbits Don't Care - or at least, not for very long. I do trust that the Jackson/Boyens team recognizes this, as they have a terrific record at thematic consistency so far, even if they did make some controversial plot changes out of time constraint concerns.

It lends a great deal of resonance to Frodo's departure at the Grey Havens. His experience damaged him irreparably, and he will never remain the same. Yet the Shire is very much the same as it was before - yes, even in the book, it grows back to its full glory in the years after it is ravaged. When you look at the Big Picture, the Shire comes out unaffected.

Frodo does not.

hectorberlioz · 10-10-2003, 06:04 PM

You'd think that with 4 hours 20 minutes, that he'd do SOMETHING.

Elfhelm · 10-10-2003, 07:54 PM

Sam will propose to Rosie, dammit! he better...

Lizra · 10-10-2003, 08:30 PM

I could see the Shire being untouched myself. No scouring means nothing to scour!?

Don't rightly know!

hectorberlioz · 10-10-2003, 11:48 PM

No Elfhelm, Sam will marry frodo. Ian Mckellan thought they should put something in there that gays would appreciate.

Elvengirl · 10-11-2003, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
No Elfhelm, Sam will marry frodo. Ian Mckellan thought they should put something in there that gays would appreciate.

OMG NO!

Elvengirl · 10-11-2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
No Elfhelm, Sam will marry frodo. Ian Mckellan thought they should put something in there that gays would appreciate.

OMG NO!

oops posted twice

hectorberlioz · 10-14-2003, 11:52 PM

dont worry Elvengirl, there is no way that i'll let it happen....

Elvengirl · 10-15-2003, 07:43 AM

*sighs with relief*
phew ok, glad to know that won't happen

Evenstar1400 · 10-15-2003, 08:22 AM

i know i for one, would be sure to go crazy if that did happen

Elfhelm · 10-16-2003, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
No Elfhelm, Sam will marry frodo. Ian Mckellan thought they should put something in there that gays would appreciate.

I really admire McKellan's acting skills. He is one of the great Shakespeareans. I guarantee that he would never alter a great classic for any reason. Gays have no desire to convert straights, they just want the same rights.

Besides, there are many things in the stories that gays appreciate without altering the plot, such as 1.) the insistence that people should not be judged on such superficial differences or 2.) the wonderful ways in which opposite people put aside differences in times of need.

When they show Legolas looking all dreamy, it's for the girls, right? And when the boys object to this, what are they really saying? That they think half of humanity doesn't deserve a little oggle at the cute elf? *snort* If the movies were only appealling to bloodlusting gross-me-out young men who want to posture their imaginary machismo, they would fail. There should be a little something for everybody.If you don't happen to be the somebody the little something is for, just let it go.

The gays like the handsome men. I only know a few and none would change a word of Tolkien, in fact have been somewhat purist about things when we discussed it.

hectorberlioz · 10-20-2003, 06:28 PM

umm. okay. you dont have to make a big deal of it.

Lizra · 10-20-2003, 06:33 PM

I bet most of the Shire stuff will be close ups...Frodo, unhappy in Bag End, talk about what to do with Gandalf etc.

10-07-2003, 08:46 AM	#1
Black Breathalizer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 828	How will the Shire be depicted in ROTK? Okay, we all know the Scouring of the Shire is not going to be in ROTK. So this is not another thread to lament its absence. So what will Peter Jackson do? How will the hobbits find the Shire when they return at the end of ROTK? Will it be the same as we last saw it in FOTR? Will it be as if nothing had happened? Or do you think that even without Sharkey, the Shire will have changed for the worse during the hobbits' adventure? Personally, I think that Tolkien's "you can't go home again" theme still needs to be played out somehow. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a few smoke stacks in the Shire in ROTK. What do you think?

10-07-2003, 05:50 PM	#5
Bridgette Enting Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada! Posts: 70	It would be nice to have someone do a narration of what happens to the characters, just to kind of wrap it up. Passing dialoge would work well, to just mention the changes. __________________ Used to be known as Lady of Rohan

10-07-2003, 07:06 PM	#7
Celebréiel Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: A house! Posts: 376	I agree that a narrative seems like a good way to wrap things up. Mixing the images of Sam...and then Frodo at the gray havens, pausing the narration for some talking. They opened the film with a narrative so it makes sense that they closed it with one. As far as the shire, I honestly have no clue how that will be played out. It would be super cool to see a use for Sam's magic dirt, but I could also see that being left out...shrugs im just clueless... __________________ Peace Yeah, Your an individual...just like everyone else. http://cartalien.deviantart.com/ - Arty goodness

10-07-2003, 07:24 PM	#8
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	I'm not going to talk about how the Shire is going to look or be presented in any straight sense, but rather attack this question from a different angle: Regardless of whether the Shire is destroyed, I think it's vital that the hobbits are - and this is the keyword - indifferent. One of the central elements of the "circular" journey that Frodo and Sam go through is that they leave the comfort of the Shire and go out into this vast fantasy world that is too big for them, only to return to a Shire that is still pretty oblivious to the whole thing. The outside world fades away. Even in the book, where the Scouring of the Shire means the events of Middle-Earth affect the Shire-folk in a very big way, Frodo and Sam are hardly a factor. It's Merry and Pippin who lead the hobbits at Bywater. In that sense, I think it's pretty important that even after Frodo and Sam go through all that trouble to save the world, their fellow hobbits Don't Care - or at least, not for very long. I do trust that the Jackson/Boyens team recognizes this, as they have a terrific record at thematic consistency so far, even if they did make some controversial plot changes out of time constraint concerns. It lends a great deal of resonance to Frodo's departure at the Grey Havens. His experience damaged him irreparably, and he will never remain the same. Yet the Shire is very much the same as it was before - yes, even in the book, it grows back to its full glory in the years after it is ravaged. When you look at the Big Picture, the Shire comes out unaffected. Frodo does not. __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

10-10-2003, 06:04 PM	#9
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	You'd think that with 4 hours 20 minutes, that he'd do SOMETHING. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

10-07-2003, 12:04 PM	#2
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Tolkien wraps up a LOT of loose threads those last 100 or so pages - plus in the appendices, which I think would be very hard to make work in a drawn-out conclusion to a movie. What would be NICE is if we got a 3-5 minute narrated overview of how things went down with all the main characters from the end of the main action part of the story onward. Don't know if that's what they'll DO, but it would be nice... Other thoughts?

10-07-2003, 02:24 PM	#4
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	I agree, I think something will be done, but it will either not be mentioned (just observed by the viewer), or will be mentioned in passing as dialogue between two characters about how things have changed (probably S and F). These things might be as you said a smokestack or two, more houses and bigger buildings, or even a different attitude among the citizenry. Then on the other hand, I think there could possibly be some golden trees springing up as an unspoken reference to Galadriel's gift of dirt to Sam (I know she didn't give him that in the movie, but it could just be shown with the implication that the Shire had a bit more of a "magical" touch with the return of "our" hobbits. I don't know, just surmising.

10-10-2003, 07:54 PM	#10
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Sam will propose to Rosie, dammit! he better... __________________ cya

10-10-2003, 08:30 PM	#11
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I could see the Shire being untouched myself. No scouring means nothing to scour!? Don't rightly know! __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

10-10-2003, 11:48 PM	#12
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	No Elfhelm, Sam will marry frodo. Ian Mckellan thought they should put something in there that gays would appreciate. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

10-14-2003, 11:52 PM	#15
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	dont worry Elvengirl, there is no way that i'll let it happen.... __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

10-15-2003, 07:43 AM	#16
Elvengirl Mirthful Maiden Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Rivendell Posts: 1,252	sighs with relief phew ok, glad to know that won't happen __________________ The Elves represent, as it were, the artistic, aesthetic, and purely scientific aspects of the Humane nature raised to a higher level than is actually seen in Men.~ J.R.R. Tolkien Wanna play? www.thievesguild.com

10-15-2003, 08:22 AM	#17
Evenstar1400 Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In the inner depths of my lair. Posts: 421	i know i for one, would be sure to go crazy if that did happen __________________ Treebeard: Hmm, you look like hobbits, smell like hobbits, feel like hobbits and sound like hobbits. You must be orcs!

10-20-2003, 06:28 PM	#19
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	umm. okay. you dont have to make a big deal of it. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

10-20-2003, 06:33 PM	#20
Lizra Domesticated Swing Babe Join Date: May 2002 Location: Reality Posts: 5,340	I bet most of the Shire stuff will be close ups...Frodo, unhappy in Bag End, talk about what to do with Gandalf etc. __________________ Happy Atheist Go Democrats!

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