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Old 05-11-2005, 04:56 PM   #1
Gordis
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Nazgul horses

Hi, all!
I have made a curious observation. I hope it was not discussed before.

After the nazgul were drowned at the Bruinen Ford only the bodies of 8 horses were found:
Quote:
Three of the black horses had been found at once drowned in the flooded Ford. On the rocks of the rapids below it searchers discovered the bodies of five more, and also a long black cloak, slashed and tattered. Of the Black Riders no other trace was to be seen, and nowhere was their presence to be felt. It seemed that they had vanished from the North.
'Eight out of the Nine are accounted for at least,' said Gandalf. 'It is rash to be too sure, yet I think that we may hope now that the Ringwraiths were scattered, and have been obliged to return as best they could to their Master in Mordor, empty and shapeless.
So, as you can see, one horse may have remained alive.

Isn't it curious that later only one of the nazgul (the Witch-King) was seen to ride a horse at the siege of Minas Tirith? The rest were constantly on Fell Beasts.

I believe that horse was the same animal that survived the Flood.

So it looks like:
1. One of the Black Riders (most likely the WK) was able to get out of the river without "loosing his shape" (whatever that means) and save a horse and ride to Mordor ahead of the others. Later he probably collected the rest of his Riders on the Fell Beast (remember the shape that flew over the Fellowship near Caradhras)
2. The nazgul had only one trained horse each
3. The training took a long time, not just a single spell, but probably a lot of petting and carrot-feeding

What do you think on it?
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Old 05-11-2005, 06:28 PM   #2
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Strider

Quote:
Originally Posted by gordis
Hi, all!
I have made a curious observation. I hope it was not discussed before.

After the nazgul were drowned at the Bruinen Ford only the bodies of 8 horses were found:

So, as you can see, one horse may have remained alive.

Isn't it curious that later only one of the nazgul (the Witch-King) was seen to ride a horse at the siege of Minas Tirith? The rest were constantly on Fell Beasts.

I believe that horse was the same animal that survived the Flood.

So it looks like:
1. One of the Black Riders (most likely the WK) was able to get out of the river without "loosing his shape" (whatever that means) and save a horse and ride to Mordor ahead of the others. Later he probably collected the rest of his Riders on the Fell Beast (remember the shape that flew over the Fellowship near Caradhras)
2. The nazgul had only one trained horse each
3. The training took a long time, not just a single spell, but probably a lot of petting and carrot-feeding

What do you think on it?
Don't think so, Tolken was a very good wrighter...
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Old 05-11-2005, 08:21 PM   #3
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I don't see why they wouldn't just train more than one horse per Nazgul at the same time Gordis. (Or at least, in orverlapping timelines.) This could also have coincided with a fell beast development program.
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Old 05-11-2005, 10:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nurvingiel
I don't see why they wouldn't just train more than one horse per Nazgul at the same time Gordis. (Or at least, in orverlapping timelines.) This could also have coincided with a fell beast development program.
Considering that the riders were emitting such fear "so that horse and man gave way and fled "(FOTR), I wouldn't say that it will be an easy task to train the horse. Probably this horses has been picked out of thousands of others who were so scared of Nazgul, that became untrainable.
They, probably had more success with Fell beasts.

Great observation, gordis!
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Old 05-12-2005, 03:36 AM   #5
Last Child of Ungoliant
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Nazgul

i agree with olmer here, it is quite obvious, to me, that the training of the black horses would be a long process, seeing as how the nazgul inspire terror in all living things, including the orcs and trolls - on the other hand, the fell beasts were nurtured by sauron, or the nazgul, fed with fell meats


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Originally Posted by The Return of the King
The Battle of the Pelennor Fields
A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the moon, outstayed their day, and in hideous eyrie bred this last untimely brood, apt to evil. And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all things that fly; and he gave it to his servant to be his steed.
but of course, this begs the question, What were the fell beasts?

Last edited by Last Child of Ungoliant : 05-12-2005 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant
i agree with olmer here, it is quite obvious, to me, that the training of the black horses would be a long process, seeing as how the nazgul inspire terror in all living things, including the orcs and trolls - on the other hand, the fell beasts were nurtured by sauron, or the nazgul, fed with fell meats




but of course, this begs the question, What were the fell beasts?
That would make quite an interesting thread LCoU.

P.S.Can i call you LCoU for short, if not i apologise greatly
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Old 05-12-2005, 06:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmer
Considering that the riders were emitting such fear "so that horse and man gave way and fled "(FOTR), I wouldn't say that it will be an easy task to train the horse. Probably this horses has been picked out of thousands of others who were so scared of Nazgul, that became untrainable.
They, probably had more success with Fell beasts.

Great observation, gordis!
That's a good point, but I still think they could find more than nine. I agree that it would take a long time though.
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me9996
Don't think so, Tolken was a very good wrighter...
An ordinary "wrighter" would have made the Elves find all the Nine horses. But Tolkien was a genius. There are always things unanswered, something you can muse about…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmer
Considering that the riders were emitting such fear "so that horse and man gave way and fled "(FOTR), I wouldn't say that it will be an easy task to train the horse. Probably this horses has been picked out of thousands of others who were so scared of Nazgul, that became untrainable.
They, probably had more success with Fell beasts.
Great observation, gordis!
Thanks, Olmer.
Yes I agree. The nazgul horses must have been quite unique. And not only were some horses "picked out of thousands of others who were too scared of Nazgul", but also perhaps these selected ones had to be interbred to get foals to be trained by nazgul from a very young age. Bottlefed by nazgul, perhaps . (Gandalf says that they were "BORN and BRED in the service of Mordor").
Nazgul could "look through the eyes of their horses" ho help their poor eyesight, that means they had to establish a pretty strong mental connection with the horse.

Moreover, they were OUTSTANDING horses, not the sorry maltreated creatures of PJ's movie. Gandalf praising Shadowfax says: "The horses of the Nine cannot vie with him" However, you can see from the example below that they come very close behind:
Tale of Years
Nazgul: Fords of Isen - 18.09; Sarn Ford - evening 22.09
Gandald on Shadowfax: Fords of Isen - 24.09; Sarn Ford - 28.09

So it took the same time (4 days) for Shadowfax and the nazgul horses to cover the same distance! And Gandalf said he has ridden in a great hurry!

So, possibly the nazgul horses were all of Mearas blood, therefore very rare to come by. It seems that Shadowfax had no fear of the nazgul, so perhaps his kin was also eligible for this character.

I believe that given all those difficulties with horses, each nazgul started training a new horse when the previous was growing old. That was sensible in times of peace. And, remember, Sauron was not planning to start the war that soon, until in 3017 he learned about the Ring from Gollum. So in two years there was no time for the nazgul to train extra horses. And even much less time after their own were drowned.
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Old 05-13-2005, 04:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olmer
Considering that the riders were emitting such fear "so that horse and man gave way and fled "(FOTR), I wouldn't say that it will be an easy task to train the horse. Probably this horses has been picked out of thousands of others who were so scared of Nazgul, that became untrainable.
They, probably had more success with Fell beasts.

Great observation, gordis!
Olmer! Glad to see you are still about!!
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordis
Hi, all!
I have made a curious observation. I hope it was not discussed before.

After the nazgul were drowned at the Bruinen Ford only the bodies of 8 horses were found:

So, as you can see, one horse may have remained alive.

Isn't it curious that later only one of the nazgul (the Witch-King) was seen to ride a horse at the siege of Minas Tirith? The rest were constantly on Fell Beasts.

I believe that horse was the same animal that survived the Flood.

So it looks like:
1. One of the Black Riders (most likely the WK) was able to get out of the river without "loosing his shape" (whatever that means) and save a horse and ride to Mordor ahead of the others. Later he probably collected the rest of his Riders on the Fell Beast (remember the shape that flew over the Fellowship near Caradhras)
2. The nazgul had only one trained horse each
3. The training took a long time, not just a single spell, but probably a lot of petting and carrot-feeding

What do you think on it?
The real question is, why did he get stinted on getting a fell beast? Maybe Mordor rewards in reverse?
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