The Smith of Wooton Major, and Middle Earth

[Embladyne]

I'm not sure exactly where this belongs, because The Smith of Wooton Major isn't specifically set in Middle Earth.

My question is, ever since I first read The Smith of Wooton Major, I've wondered how the elves and the realm of faery in the story relate to Tolkien's work on Middle Earth.
I'm wondering if the whole story maybe takes place in ME, or if "Faery" is ME, or if none of it is. I guess this is a pointless question, but I'm truly curious to know other people's take on it.

[Tessar]

I believe it was simply meant to be a sort of 'stand alone bed-time story'.

Just by reading it, I personally don't think it had anything to do with Middle Earth. Middle Earth was a bit more gritty and dark, while even at its 'worst' this story was very light hearted and sweet.

[inked]

Yes, it is in the Tolkien corpus, but it is separate. Rather like Leaf by Niggle.

[Embladyne]

Okay, sounds good to me. But, after reading about ME, reading about elves in another work of Tolkien always evokes the elves of ME. What I'm wondering is if Tolkien saw the elves in The Smith of Wooton Major as refering to the elves of ME, or if the land of "Feary" was just a good place to vacation in.

[Tessar]

Ah, but if you'll remember it wasn't always a pleasant place.

I believe there was something said about how the elvish warships were 'terrible to look upon', and that the elvish warriors themselves frightened him so much that the smith threw himself on the ground.

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by inked

Yes, it is in the Tolkien corpus, but it is separate. Rather like Leaf by Niggle.

Ah, yes, but Leaf by Niggle has a more overt social commentary than I see in Smith of WM, and is very definitely a distinctly different place. I just am wondering how to intepret the prescence of "Faery" in the story. I haven't decided yet.
edit: Okay, this is not worded very well. I should sleep, and take a look again when I wake up later.

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by Tessar

Ah, but if you'll remember it wasn't always a pleasant place.

I believe there was something said about how the elvish warships were 'terrible to look upon', and that the elvish warriors themselves frightened him so much that the smith threw himself on the ground.

Mmm...apologies...I meant good as in convenient.
Yeah, it was the elvish warriors that particularly make me think of ME. But that's prolly from reading too much of the Silm and HOME.

[Tessar]

I haven't read much of the Sil, LT, or HoM to know, but from what little I do know, I'm pretty sure Tolkien didn't mean to make any connections between those stories.

Now on the other hand, many writers have little 'quirks' that they like to throw in. Tolkien probably disliked the idea of 'short' elves, so his are always tall, beautiful, and powerful, even if the power is subtler.

I also have a feeling that Tolkien didn't delve too deeply into the whole fairy thing. For instance when he bestows magical powers on something, he's always very vague and generalized about it. The flip side would be a writer like Robert Jordan (Wheel of Time), or perhaps simply the people who write the Dungeons and Dragons games.

[Embladyne]

Some of the comments have already kinda answered this, but I think after re-reading what I wrote, and my inabilaty to write the question I really wanted last night, this is closer to what I had in mind:

Firstly, I realize that SWM is not set in ME, and it is a story separate from the ME writings, like quite a few other works of Tolkien.

However, what I was most wondering about is if the elves of Faery in this story are similar in some ways to the elves of ME because that's just how Tolkien saw elves? Or, if he didn't mind the reader seeing the similarities because it helped to make Faery a more substantial place than the events that the Smith experienced there, by helping the reader to imagine a longer and more tangled history to Faery than the ridiculous ideas that Nokes has about minute girls with wings. (Basically, the reader refers to Tolkien's ideas of elves rather than more mainstream ideas of elves) It's difficult, I would say impossible mostly, to isolate a literary work from everything else, so I'm assuming that when we see elves in one of Tolkien's stories he'd rather have the reader say "Oh, like the cool ones in ME!" instead of "another fairy?'

It's kinda strange in that in the end of SWM, the realm of Faery actually seems more real than the world Wooton Major and Minor exist in...

Anyway, just my thoughts. Like I said before, it's not an important question, just something that for some reason interests me. And I got very repetative.

[Blackheart]

Errrr... Middle Earth is the current planet you are living on right now. Tolkein pretty much stated that.

Faery is faery. The realm is, I doubt, very far removed from faery in Middle Earth. I would say, however, that Wooton Major lies closer to the boundries of faery than to middle earth...

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

faery = early concept for aman

in hobbit, it is stated that at rivendell dwelt many of the elves who had not returned to faery, or summat like that IIRC

[Embladyne]

Yeah, reading the LT in depth is really putting The Smith into context for me now. Eriol shares some features with him...and the way the stories play out is also a similar writing style. I think as I read more of the HOME series I'll find the answers to more of my questions....and more questions as well.
If anyone wants to talk about The Smith, though, I would love to!

[Rían]

I think Smith is fascinating ... some quite unexpected ideas ...

Tolkien had an interesting view of it - from letter 299 -
"An old man's book, already weighted with the presage of 'bereavement'. "

Did you see that at all?

[Embladyne]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I think Smith is fascinating ... some quite unexpected ideas ...

Tolkien had an interesting view of it - from letter 299 -
"An old man's book, already weighted with the presage of 'bereavement'. "

Did you see that at all?

No, I haven't yet seen that. I've only read the intro to the Letters...Ellie wont let me borrow it, so I was reading it while visiting her. And I spend most of that time talking to her, or doing other stuff, so it'll be slow going. Actually, I'm going to get my own copy, and then we were going to talk about the letters as we read them together, because we thought that would be a good way to keep ourselves motivated to get through them. In case they seemed to get tedious. (She hasn't read them either...they just sit on her bookshelf, or her desk, or her floor, where I found them last.... )

[Blackheart]

The story is about finding something precious, and losing it. However what makes it bearable is passing it on to someone else...

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Blackheart

The story is about finding something precious, and losing it. However what makes it bearable is passing it on to someone else...

Sounds a lot like LotR in some ways.

When was SoWM written? Before or after LotR?

[Pytt]

I think I have read it. It's very short isn't it? But I always mix up that one with another, which has almost the same name. Don't remember now. I think I need to find it, and read it, before I say something.

[Embladyne]

I'm not sure when it was written. I think I need to read the Letters, as Rian suggests. I know that it was published after LOTR, and often in combination with Farmer Giles of Ham.

I think it's more than about losing something precious, because in that losing, there is still something that is not and can not be lost, because it has become part of you.

[Blackheart]

What? No it's about bunnies! Fluffy bunnies with fairy wings. On top of large white cakes. With fangs.

[Embladyne]

You mean...faery bunnie queens with sparkly wings on white sugar cakes...and swallowing stars with sharp pointy points.....that could cause you to choke and die!