Walk The Real Tolkien Trail.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Wading through the thickets of politics and geography for a bit....

Originally posted by Artanis
*still smiling*
LOL! The idea of America representing the Undying Lands ...

Say rather, the Americas, and think of Númenor, whence either directly or through its empire came all those "New World" things into Middle-earth: tobacco, potatoes, coffee, etc.

But also a good case can be made for an influence on Tolkien from the United States. Exhibit A would definitely be Stephen Crane's The Black Riders and Other Lines. Crane's black riders referred to a childhood dream he had where black riders had appeared out of the sea. One could say this is a coincidence, but check out #37:

On the horizon the peaks assembled;
And as I looked,
The march of the mountains began.
As they marched, they sang,
"Aye! We come! We come!"

Tell me JRRT's song of the Ents wasn't influenced by this!

Then there is Ambrose Bierce's definition of "Belladonna" in The Devil's Dictionary:

Belladonna, n. In Italian a beautiful lady; in English a deadly poison. A striking example of the essential identify of the two tongues.

Perhaps it's reaching a bit to say JRRT was taken by this, perhaps by the language reference, and chose the name for Bilbo's mother; however, Bierce himself was familiar enough with Oxford (versus Cambridge) to complain about the British pronunciation "Maudlin" for "Magdalen" (College, in Oxford): see the entry in his dictionary for "Magdalene." Perhaps he lectured there.

Anyway, these two writers were alive, famous and and influential at about the time JRRT was at his most impressionable. I'd say there's a strong case for an American influence on him.

[Lalaith]

Or my village would be Edoras and my house the halls of Meduseld with myself as lady of rohan.

[congressmn]

Originally posted by congressmn
O this thread has turned around quite remarkably.

I have a crazy idea.

Why dont we devide Earth to resemble the various places in Middle Earth?

Like Gondor could be Eurorope. Mordor - Afghanistan extending till Iraq, and Pakistan on the East.

I think i will try to do this.
Let us all prepare our maps, and share it.

Lets see who gets the best one.

So r the maps ready? i think it will be an interesting activity deviding the earth, and then deviding it further to resemble every tolkien geographical creation.

[Jonathan]

Sweden and Scandinavia should be the north of Arnor, Russia should be Angmar.

[Lalaith]

Sorry, I'm a horrible painter.

[Draken]

I think the basic premise of creating a mythology for England carried on underpinning a lot of ME. Threats in ME tend to come from the same direction as threats to the British isles - from the east, with a wide western ocean effectively bounding the known world.

And Tolkien drew on Northern mythologies in general, not just Norse. At the risk of removing the Scandinavian smiles, I think there are more similarities to Saxon mythology than Norse!

[congressmn]

I would agree.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Draken
And Tolkien drew on Northern mythologies in general, not just Norse. At the risk of removing the Scandinavian smiles, I think there are more similarities to Saxon mythology than Norse!

and Ive always found it interesting that no one ever really touches on the apparent pantheonic influences found in many ancient religions but most notibly ancient Greece and Rome and how they compare so well to Tolkiens diestic structure of many gods and demigods with different specialties. and of these god like creatures not always getting along very well. or not always being very nice to the common people. I guess because theres such a strong christian theme to his work that this point gets overshadowed often.

[Lalaith]

I don't like the thought of having more than one god, but I can live with the Valar.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Lalaith
I don't like the thought of having more than one god, but I can live with the Valar.

Well from a christian point of view (and Im certainly not speaking AS one, Im just saying what ive heard from many) the Valar are like the high angels of god. and the maiar are the lesser angels and such. which would make Iluvatar The One God. And of course Melkor would be a fallen angel like lucifer and on and on...

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
and Ive always found it interesting that no one ever really touches on the apparent pantheonic influences found in many ancient religions but most notibly ancient Greece and Rome and how they compare so well to Tolkiens diestic structure of many gods and demigods with different specialties.

These influences don't necessarely have to come from Greeca and Rome. The same diestic structure is found in Norse mythology, where the gods and demigods also had very diverse specialities.

[Lalaith]

These influences don't necessarely have to come from Greeca and Rome. The same diestic structure is found in Norse mythology, where the gods and demigods also had very diverse specialities.

Defending the scandinavian influence on Tolkien? *gg*

Well from a christian point of view (and Im certainly not speaking AS one, Im just saying what ive heard from many) the Valar are like the high angels of god. and the maiar are the lesser angels and such. which would make Iluvatar The One God. And of course Melkor would be a fallen angel like lucifer and on and on...

That's quite a good comparison speaking as a christian. (This may be the cause why I don't like the thought of having more than one good - as christian you only believe in one.)