Where do the people come from?

[GreyMouser]

This is a little unfair, since Lewis never spent the time Tolkien did to build his world, but what the heck...

In the LTWTW, it's made pretty clear that there are no humans in Narnia, nor have been for quite a while. However, we know there were people in Archenland and Calormen at that time, yet to the Narnians, Humans are mythical creatures - the Witch had a pretty good border patrol.

Yet twelve years later, according to "The Horse and His Boy", there were plentiful Narnian humans.

So, where did they come from?

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by GreyMouser

This is a little unfair, since Lewis never spent the time Tolkien did to build his world, but what the heck...

In the LTWTW, it's made pretty clear that there are no humans in Narnia, nor have been for quite a while. However, we know there were people in Archenland and Calormen at that time, yet to the Narnians, Humans are mythical creatures - the Witch had a pretty good border patrol.

Yet twelve years later, according to "The Horse and His Boy", there were plentiful Narnian humans.

So, where did they come from?

Overseas.

I am taking some liberties here, but could it be possible that Aslan brought other people into Narnia that were not mentioned in the LWW. I am sure Aslan could do this if he wanted to without telling other people about it.

(Besides, Aslan would only talk to you about your story and not anyone else's. )

[Acalewia]

The Telmarines were humans that found a way into Narnia. There could have been more openings then the Wardrobe and the Rings

[Wayfarer]

Well, obviously there were humans in Telmar, and Calormen, and Archenland, and the Isles. It's not hard to figure out where people might have come from to repopulate the country. I think the question you're asking is: where those people came from in the firt place?

And there are at least two answers to that:

A) Narnia has always been inhabited by Humans. Literally, humans have been there since the dawn of time. The native (human) Narnians (and Archenlanders) were presumably English by descent - the first King and Queen of Narnia, you may recall, were King Frank and Queen Helen from London (Ref: TMN). It's quite likely that they were the ancestors of the later Narnians, up until Jadis took control and drove out all the humans.

B) As Acalewia alludes to, there were any number of ways to get to Narnia. People might have been wandering through and making themselves at home throughout its history. The Telmarines, specifically, were descended from Pirates, of all things, who found their way to Narnia (the world, not the country) and settled there. (Ref: Prince Caspian)

[GreyMouser]

No, the question I asked was pretty well the one I wanted to ask.

I guess I should have emphasised more that it was the quickness of the re-populating I was wondering about. Oops, 14 years, not 12- but still....

They could have been Telmarines, though as I recall Telmar was a fair distance away, across the Western Wilds; and I don't think Telmarines would become Narnians that quickly.
They weren't Calormenes; THaHB repeatedly stresses the different appearances of the two groups.

That leaves either a)Archenlanders or b) the inhabitants of the islands, especially Galma and Terebinthia.

I do get the impression that at that time the Archenlanders and Narnians had pretty distinct identities, which wouldn't have arisen that fast if they were simply new immigrants.

Presumably the islands, like Archenland, were not under the Witch's spell of winter, and were inhabited by Humans the whole Hundred Years.
She must have been able to prevent them from landing, though it's hard to see why they'd want to anyway- Beaver pelts? the ice trade with Calormen?

The Witch would have turned her back on the Sea for the same reasons as the Telmarines did.

In "Dawn Treader", Edmund says that the Lone Islands were a Narnian possession in the time of the White Witch- though he may have meant that they maintained loyalty to the pre-Witch Narnia.

Writing this, I've come up with a possible explanation- we are never told what happened to the original Humans in Narnia when the Witch showed up- we can assume the worst, but maybe many of them were able to flee into Archenland or to the Islands, where they kept their identity as Narnians- then, when the Witch was dead and the High King restored, they came flocking back.

Not only would it give them their Narnian identity, it would explain why Narnia so quickly became a maritime power- those taking refuge in the Islands would have to have become expert seamen to make a living.

Any thoughts?

[Acalewia]

One: Wow!
Two: Archenland was not an Island, but a neighboring country.
Another thing: Aslan may have decided to create humans to inhabit Narnia in the same way he created the other creatures.

[hectorberlioz]

I never thought about it before of course...but as suggested above, it probably had to do with Aslan. Narnia has a tad more magical events happening than Middle-Earth

[GreyMouser]

Originally Posted by Acalewia

One: Wow!
Two: Archenland was not an Island, but a neighboring country.

Was this in reference to "Presumably the islands, like Archenland, were not under the control of the White Witch.." ?

Sorry, didn't express myself clearly-I didn't mean that "the islands like [=such as ] Archenland.."; the 'like' in this case is comparing two different things, not giving an example.

I meant the the islands were not under the control of the White Witch, and neither was Archenland.


And I don't find the "Aslan did it" argument satisfactory
1) It's too easy
2) Either Aslan simply created a whole new race of full-grown Humans as Narnians , with full knowledge of traditional Narnian customs, or
3) A bunch of Humans found a door into Narnia, swore allegiance to a twelve-year-old and set about learning those same customs and transforming themselves from whatever they were before to Narnians- in less than 14 years.

Remember Hwin informing Aravis that in Narnia girls are free to marry whom they choose? AFAIK it's never established how long Bree or Hwin were captive in Calormen, but it's certainly years- so Hwin would be referring to customs that at the most would have been 7-8 years old, if the Narnians were new arrivals.

Of course I'm trying to wring an ocean of meaning out of a wet hankie, but hey, that's the fun of it

Wait till I start on the language....

[Acalewia]

Originally Posted by GreyMouser

Was this in reference to "Presumably the islands, like Archenland, were not under the control of the White Witch.." ?

Sorry, didn't express myself clearly-I didn't mean that "the islands like [=such as ] Archenland.."; the 'like' in this case is comparing two different things, not giving an example.

I meant the the islands were not under the control of the White Witch, and neither was Archenland.

I was refering to that. Thanks for clearing that up
You know, this is quite fun.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by GreyMouser

Was this in reference to "Presumably the islands, like Archenland, were not under the control of the White Witch.." ?

Sorry, didn't express myself clearly-I didn't mean that "the islands like [=such as ] Archenland.."; the 'like' in this case is comparing two different things, not giving an example.

I meant the the islands were not under the control of the White Witch, and neither was Archenland.

Language is interesting! That sentence could go either way. I didn't think you meant ALand was an island, though, because I knew it wasn't. If I did NOT know it wasn't, I probably would have read it that way!

Writing this, I've come up with a possible explanation- we are never told what happened to the original Humans in Narnia when the Witch showed up- we can assume the worst, but maybe many of them were able to flee into Archenland or to the Islands, where they kept their identity as Narnians- then, when the Witch was dead and the High King restored, they came flocking back.

I think that's probably what happened. Narnians seem to have a strong love for their country, and I can imagine it was well-publicized when the WW was killed. Maybe it was even a bit like when the wall went down in Germany - people would cross over and look for long-lost friends (not relatives in the Narnian case, because there weren't any humans in Narnia) and then the humans would come joyfully back.

[sun-star]

I like the Narnian diaspora theory. Is it possible (I haven't read "The Horse and his Boy" for a while) that we're talking about a relatively small number of people anyway - perhaps just a handful of noble families descended from Frank and Helen who would easily preserve their own customs over a century's exile? When they come back, it would be enough to form a royal court around the Pevensies, but wouldn't consistute a large movement of population.