Reading any good books?

[katya]

I'm finally reading The Brothers Karamazov. I'm about 93 pages into it. It's kind of like an adult taste that is harder to appreciate but all the better when you do. Like dark chocolate. Luckily I'm in the right sort of mind-set these past few weeks to read something like that or I'd have probably dropped it by now, but as it is I'm anxious to read more. The characters are amazingly real. I'm enjoying it so far. I feel another Russian literature phase coming on...

[Rían]

Why is that, GMouser?

Val - the BBC thing started last Sunday, with a rendition of Northanger Abbey that was pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. But I missed the first third or half or so. I think they're supposed to do every Austen novel!

[GrayMouser]

"Hate" is a little too strong, but I certainly didn't like it, and I'm not alone (including her own mother)

Mansfield Park has the dubious distinction of being disliked by more of Jane Austen's fans than any of her other novels, even to the point of spawning "Fanny Wars" in internet discussion forums.
....
The major problem for most of the novel's detractors is the lead character, Fanny Price. She is shy, timid, lacking in self-confidence, physically weak, and seemingly—to some, annoyingly—always right. Austen's own mother called her "insipid", and many have used the word "priggish".

http://www.austen.com/mans/
Mansfield Park, By Jane Austen

Spoilers!!!!















As well, the snobbish reaction of Fanny to her family- "Oh dear, people who actually work for a living". Given Austen's love of and pride in her brothers who were in the Royal Navy- shown earlier in the novel- this was grating.

But it's mostly Fanny as compared to, say, Lizzie Bennet or Elinor Dashwood.

As well, the snobbish reaction

[sun-star]

I must defend one of my favourite Austen characters

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

As well, the snobbish reaction of Fanny to her family- "Oh dear, people who actually work for a living". Given Austen's love of and pride in her brothers who were in the Royal Navy- shown earlier in the novel- this was grating.

I don't think that's it at all. Fanny doesn't object to her family working for a living; she struggles with the fact that although she wants to love them, she can't help seeing how flawed they are (no less so than the aristocrats at Mansfield - which is important). Austen says it best (from Chapter 39):

William was gone: and the home he had left her in was, Fanny could not conceal it from herself, in almost every respect the very reverse of what she could have wished. It was the abode of noise, disorder, and impropriety. Nobody was in their right place, nothing was done as it ought to be. She could not respect her parents as she had hoped. On her father, her confidence had not been sanguine, but he was more negligent of his family, his habits were worse, and his manners coarser, than she had been prepared for. He did not want abilities but he had no curiosity, and no information beyond his profession; he read only the newspaper and the navy-list; he talked only of the dockyard, the harbour, Spithead, and the Motherbank; he swore and he drank, he was dirty and gross. She had never been able to recall anything approaching to tenderness in his former treatment of herself. There had remained only a general impression of roughness and loudness; and now he scarcely ever noticed her, but to make her the object of a coarse joke...

She might scruple to make use of the words, but she must and did feel that her mother was a partial, ill-judging parent, a dawdle, a slattern, who neither taught nor restrained her children, whose house was the scene of mismanagement and discomfort from beginning to end, and who had no talent, no conversation, no affection towards herself; no curiosity to know her better, no desire of her friendship, and no inclination for her company that could lessen her sense of such feelings.

All of this is a moral judgement, not one of class, and if you want to call it snobbery, it clearly belongs to Austen rather than Fanny.


As for Fanny herself, it will never cease to puzzle me how readers can hate a character for being shy and having strong principles.

[GrayMouser]

Oh well, maybe I'll have to go back and give Fanny a second chance.

Currently reading "Caesar: Life of a Colossus" by Adrian Goldsworthy.

His field is Roman military history, so he tends to focus on that- naturally, if you're dealing with one of the world's Great Captains- and a lot of politics (ditto). A good old-fashioned biography, heavy on the action, light on psychoanalysis - though a fair bit of sex, Caesar being quite the lady's man, among all his other accomplishments.

[cee2lee2]

Currently in the middle of a collection of classic science fiction short stories by Kuttner and Moore. It's titled The Two-Handed Engine.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by cee2lee2

Currently in the middle of a collection of classic science fiction short stories by Kuttner and Moore. It's titled The Two-Handed Engine.

Checked out the Table of Contents. I haven't read them all, but there's some great stuff in there.

[Rían]

Yes, Fanny is definitely irritating, and it's kind of a reverse Pride and Prejudice where Fanny resembles Lady Catherine's daughter in a way, and whats-her-name is like Lizzy. I wonder if that's why she wrote it - as kind of a challenge? It took me a while to like the book, because I wasn't fond of its heroine. But as a whole, it's an interesting book, and a good character study, although its certainly not my favorite.

I don't remember Fanny being snobbish, though - what I remember her not liking was their lack of consideration for others.

[Grey_Wolf]

At the moment Im reading Manda Scott's Boudica: Dreaming the Eagle, Churchill's The World Crisis I and John Grogan's Marley & Me.

[cee2lee2]

Agatha Christie's A Secret Adversary, which I read in installments online. It's the first of the Tommy and Tuppence mysteries.

There's a site called DailyLit where you can sign up to read books in the public domain for free. (Or pay a fee to read others.) An installment is sent to your inbox every day (or more frequently if you hit the "send next installment" link at the end of email.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

About to start Canticle for Leibowitz, for a seminar on Wednesday.

[cee2lee2]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

About to start Canticle for Leibowitz, for a seminar on Wednesday.

I've had to let go of a lot of books due to space constraints and unfortunately that was one of them. I had a paperback version from the late 60's or early 70's that was falling apart. It's been so long since I read it that I don't remember the particulars. I do remember that (imho) it's excellent. Hope you enjoy it.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

About to start Canticle for Leibowitz, for a seminar on Wednesday.

One of the greatest religious sf books ever- love to hear your thoughts, as well as those of your fellow seminarians.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

About to start Canticle for Leibowitz, for a seminar on Wednesday.

Ahem....well???

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Ahem....well???

First I wrote a long reply but somehow I was signed out Lost it all

But no worries

I agree with you wholeheartedly. The East African shore is littered with places of bloodshed in the name of European conquest and Christianization. The first Portuguese incursions, by Vasco da Gama and others, were nothing more than Crusade-like adventures to monopolize trade relations and force the Bible on the unbelieving heathens. And if any Muslims appeared on the way, then good hunting

In fact Da Gama, often solely portrayed for his greatness as an explorer, decided when coming to Calicut by India, to punish the local ruler and his inhabitants for not being totally submissive to his mission. So he "told his men to parade the prisoners, then to hack off their hands, ears and noses. As the work progressed, all the amputated pieces were piled up in a boat." Later the author recites a contemporary Portuguese historian describing how this boat of amputated body parts was filled with the same prisoners, who now had their teeth hit out (and down their throats), and how the boat was set afire with all the prisoners piled upon each others (alive).

So much for the civilized manner of conquest. In fact many kingdoms across the Indian Ocean coasts were quite prosperous. And if you've been to Mombasa you know how beautiful it gets in those parts

Read the book

[Coffeehouse]

Oops hehe, I quoted you wrong. I meant to quote your previous post

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Read the book

Love to, but it's quoted on Amazon as starting at $136

And, yes, Mombasa....

The island I was referring to was Pate, off Lamu. This was back in 1973, when Lamu was just becoming a stop on the backpacker circuit, pre-Lonely Planet.

You know how you always hear "ah, you should have been here, ten,twenty years ago, before it was discovered"?

Well, that's the one place I was there

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Love to, but it's quoted on Amazon as starting at $136

And, yes, Mombasa....

The island I was referring to was Pate, off Lamu. This was back in 1973, when Lamu was just becoming a stop on the backpacker circuit, pre-Lonely Planet.

You know how you always hear "ah, you should have been here, ten,twenty years ago, before it was discovered"?

Well, that's the one place I was there

Yeah it is kinda expensive

I know of Lamu, my family went there a few times when living in Kenya. It still has only donkies and no cars hehe Looks like paradise from the pics I've seen.

What struck me about Empires of the Monsoon was that we see today the same shift eastwards in East African relations with the outside world. China and India and other Indian Ocean countries of Asia are establishing closer ties with their East African counterparts, including South Africa. Nations like Kenya, Mozambique and South Africa are connecting with their historical trade partners in the Arabian Peninsula, India, China, Indonesia, etc. That would be a good step in the right direction away from the unhealthy European dominance of the Indian Ocean. Yet again the Indian Ocean is becoming more of a enclosing sea than a vast ocean. I think that's a healthy development for all Indian Ocean nations

And in the end this means that all the awesome places in the Indian Ocean can fend for themselves and their peoples/culture, which makes going there as a tourist even more exotic

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Ahem....well???

I read the first part, then got distracted by Gerard Manley Hopkins. There was a reading/discussion of the Wreck of the Deutschland at the same time as the seminar. Still planning on finishing it, hopefully before the school year is over.

And I'm not in a seminary.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

I read the first part, then got distracted by Gerard Manley Hopkins. There was a reading/discussion of the Wreck of the Deutschland at the same time as the seminar. Still planning on finishing it, hopefully before the school year is over.

And I'm not in a seminary.

A goodly distraction, admittedly:

I CAUGHT this morning morning’s minion, king-
dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird,—the achieve of; the mastery of the thing!

OK, so what is the plural for those taking part in a seminar?
Seminarees? Seminarists? Semen?