"Do not touch the water"

[Shadowfax]

Why did Galadriel warn Sam and Frodo not to touch the water of her mirror when they looked in it? I have always wondered this and I can't seem to find an answer anywhere. What would have happened if they did, especially to Frodo and the Ring?

[Dreran the Green]

They'd get wet

[Elf Girl]

We don't know. It's a mystery; but I do know that the Mirror was magic, and in Middle-Earth it is not good to meddle with magic you do not understand.

[Shadowfax]

So it's just one of those unresolved mysteries...no answer. Hmm. Oh well, for me, that just adds to the allure and intrigue of Galadriel and Lothlorien. Thanks.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

I believe that the Lorien Elves, and probably Galadriel would disagree on that point, Luhtarian. If I remember correctly, they did not consider such things magic, though I could be wrong.

As far as the first question goes, it is quite interesting. Of course, it is never stated, but we can speculate. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few reasons: Firstly, that touching the water would ruin the "power" (see foreword to Silmarillion, if I remember correctly) of the Mirror of Galadriel; Secondly, that touching the water would be physically, mentally, or spiritually harmful to the "toucher", due to the power of the Mirror; Thirdly, that the water was "sacred" in a sense, and something that should not be touched, whether because of any virtue of its own, or because it was used in the Mirror of Galadriel, or that it was somehow "consecrated" (when I say "sacred" and "consecrated", I do not mean in a religious sense, but there aren't better words which my halfwitted word-hoard can come up with to fit), and therefore something which should not be touched. I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but that's all I can think of right now.

[Lalaith]

Yeah, I would say because it is magic water. It doesn't harm Galadriel, but if some normal person touches the water ... who knows what happens.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
I believe that the Lorien Elves, and probably Galadriel would disagree on that point, Luhtarian. If I remember correctly, they did not consider such things magic, though I could be wrong.

We don't consider them magic, but after posing as an Atan for thirteen years, I know what the Atani would and would not call magic. The Mirror falls under the 'would' category.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem


As far as the first question goes, it is quite interesting. Of course, it is never stated, but we can speculate. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few reasons:

Thanks, Gwaimir.

[Lalaith]

Probably it is not magic, but certainly it is not human or hobbitish (however this is called) but elvish.

[Ruinel]

The images didn't come from the water, which comes from an ordinary stream, they came from the basin. Galadriel commanded the images to come forth in the basin. A power that she held because of Nenya.

At the time that Galadriel tells Frodo, softly, "do not touch the water!" Frodo is seeing the Eye as it searches for the Ring. The Eye could not see Frodo unless he willed it so. He began to slip closer to the Mirror. Touching the Mirror would have revealed him to the Eye.

As far as magic, I'm not sure what you mean by this. But I know our Elven ways are strange to the Atani.

[Elf Girl]

Originally posted by Ruinel
At the time that Galadriel tells Frodo, softly, "do not touch the water!" Frodo is seeing the Eye as it searches for the Ring. The Eye could not see Frodo unless he willed it so. He began to slip closer to the Mirror. Touching the Mirror would have revealed him to the Eye.

She said it to Frodo and Sam before either looked, though.

Originally posted by Ruinel
As far as magic, I'm not sure what you mean by this. But I know our Elven ways are strange to the Atani.

Very true. Even the Atani are not sure of what is 'magic', but as I was raised as one of them I began to understand what it is they mean.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Elf Girl
She said it to Frodo and Sam before either looked, though.

No, it is said to Frodo only when Frodo is drawn closer to the basin water by the Eye. It is not said to Sam. (If you find it different, please let me know.)

[Sister Golden Hair]

As for "Elven magic" What may have seemed like magic to motals was an art and natural to the Elves. There are instances in the books where the Elves seem to be perplexed by the word magic. When Pippin, I believe asks the Elves of Lorien about the cloaks being magic, the Elves do not quite understand. they tell him that they are fair garmants, but they will not turn shaft or blade. When Galadriel talks to Frodo about looking into the mirror, she tells him " this is I believe what you would call magic." In the Silmarillion when it describes how Finrod changes the appearance of his comrads and himself, it says "by the arts of Felagund." So, it appears, at least as far as Tolkien says, that these things were arts that were natural to the Elves.

As for Galadriel telling Frodo to not touch the water, I think Ruinel hit the nail on the head there.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Ruinel
No, it is said to Frodo only when Frodo is drawn closer to the basin water by the Eye. It is not said to Sam. (If you find it different, please let me know.)

It is said to both; to Sam before he looks, and to Frodo when he is drawn closer by the eye.

To Sam:

'Like as not,' said the Lady with a gentle laugh. 'But come, you shall look and see what you may. Do noy touch the water!'
Sam climbed up on the foot of the pedestal and leaned over the basin....

To Frodo:

The Mirror seemed to be growing hot and curls f steam were rising from the water. He [Frodo] was slipping forward.
'Do not touch the water!' said the Lady Galadriel softly.

[anduin]

Perhaps, it would just disturb the image and make it all ripplely, disappear even. Anyway, that is what I thought about it. Not very interesting I know.

[Kalile]

I think that since it is a form of scrying, if you did touch the water, you might, in effect, help these things to happen. I'm not sure how to explain this: I'm not eloquent enough, but I read somewhere about an uncertainty principle, that you aren't sure of something unless you see it happen. For example, the author used a kitten in a box. When the air runs out, the kitten dies... but not until you open the box to find out. When you look at the future, and you disturb the forces at work, something changes. You have to look to see what, and it might not be what you wanted.


I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense, I think Terry Pratchett wrote about it, it's hard to extrapolate from his work to Tolkien's.

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair


As for Galadriel telling Frodo to not touch the water, I think Ruinel hit the nail on the head there.

So then, it is probable that Galadriel knew that Sauron would be searching for Frodo through the mirror, and that in touching the water, Frodo may well have given away his position to Sauron (or something worse, like going over to the spiritual realm where the Nazgul would have overpowered him.)

[Sheeana]

Originally posted by Ruinel
A power that she held because of Nenya.

Have you got anything to back this statement up? I thought that the rings only provided a means of protection and preservation of the realms of the Elves? I would have thought that - much like Gandalf - she already weilded this power?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Sheeana
So then, it is probable that Galadriel knew that Sauron would be searching for Frodo through the mirror, and that in touching the water, Frodo may well have given away his position to Sauron (or something worse, like going over to the spiritual realm where the Nazgul would have overpowered him.)

When Frodo looked into the mirror, and the "Eye" appered, and was roving this way and that, searching, the Ring became very heavy about Frodo's neck and was drawing him down toward the water. Because of the Ring's presence, the mirror may have acted as a conductor and had Frodo touched the water, perhaps Sauron would have seen him. Not all the images in the mirror were real, but perhaps in this instance Sauron could have seen Frodo as through a Palantir.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sheeana
Have you got anything to back this statement up? I thought that the rings only provided a means of protection and preservation of the realms of the Elves? I would have thought that - much like Gandalf - she already weilded this power?

No, I'm sorry. I don't have Letters or anything that would back up my thoughts on that. I just got the impression about Nenya in that part of the story. It's about then that Frodo sees that Galadriel has upon her hand the Elven wrought ring, Nenya. And I extended, in my mind, that preservation and protection could cover the Mirror's use as well. Perhaps someone else has a book that would help clarify where the 'magic' of the Mirror came from.